On the offensive
This afternoon I upset a couple of people. Some comedians pride themselves on doing this, but I don’t care for the feeling much myself and it came as a bit of a surprise.
I made a joke on Twitter about the possible imminent demise of HMV, the high-street music store. Barely even a joke, a flip remark. It was something like ‘HMV’s struggling. Who’d have thought people would eventually tire of paying £18 for a CD?’ This was a bit of a cheap shot maybe, but a pretty mild one for a comedian, and I think quite fair. The fact is that high-street stores have been charging much too much for music for a long time. In an age of cheap instant online music it’s hard for them to compete with things like iTunes or Amazon. These days, (legal) downloading is a common-sense way of buying your music, and you would expect high street stores to respond to that. And yet in the HMV on Oxford Street, for instance, you will still see quite a lot of CDs at prices nobody would dream of paying. This is why Our Price and Zavvi went out of business – among other reasons – and the same, I’m afraid, will happen to HMV unless they get smarter.
A few people complained that the joke was pretty harsh on people who were going to lose their jobs, and they maybe had a point, but if you work for a company which doesn’t ‘compete’ properly in the ‘marketplace’, as Lord Sugar might say, then your job is always vulnerable. So I set there feeling fairly self-righteous, especially there were far more tweets in support of my remarks. (By now I’d wasted about twenty minutes watching the controversy unfold. Twitter’s a dangerous thing for someone who craves attention as much as I do. Especially with a resolution to waste less time on the internet. AND I got drunk last night on red wine. 2011 FAIL, as they say.)
But then one of the Twitter critics, or twit-crits, sent me a message to explain why he was upset by the joke. I have a mortgage and a small child, it said, and I’ve been working at HMV for years. All of us are proud of what we do and we work hard and now we’ve got an uncertain future to face up to. Normally we can take a joke about HMV’s failings, but for the moment it doesn’t seem all that funny. Not when we might lose our livelihoods.
I felt like a bit of a cock.
I replied to the guy obviously, offering my sympathy, but the overall incident leaves a bit of a bad taste. Lots more people tweeted either to agree with me, or just to say that it was funny, and some even said quite strongly that I shouldn’t apologise and that the twit-crits should get a life, get out more, etc. Far more than were upset by it. And you’ll always offend SOME people with everything you say: that’s the standard defence of comics who rub people up the wrong way.
But that’s kind of the point. What right have I, as someone who’s fortunate to be doing what he loves for a living, got to take the piss out of people who are worried for their jobs in the current financial etc etc? Of course the joke wasn’t meant to wound those people – it was a joke at the expense of the people who run HMV, if anything – but hell, for all I know, they in turn are looking at families of four thinking ‘what now’?
Clearly, though, my joke was very mild in stand-up terms, and if I start buttoning it because I’m worried about causing offence, I’m going to have no act at all. I suppose the nature of ‘offence’ is what troubles me actually. I’m not worried about ‘offending’ the sort of people who write to the Daily Mail and say ISN’T IT A DISGRACE THAT OUR LICENCE FEES GO ON ALLOWING THESE SICK PEOPLE TO PEDDLE THEIR DISGUSTING etc. I am worried about hurting people, though, and as you might remember from that blog I once did about Frankie Boyle, I do think comedians have some sort of duty to avoid doing that where possible.
Hmm.
So this HMV thing will pass, it was all very minor, I’m not trying to stir up some sort of intrigue or sensationalise my own largely trivial career. But it does raise questions about whether you can ever be a comedian (at least, a comedian like me who talks about what’s going on in the world) without upsetting a few people. And if so, what I do about it. If you could sort it out and let me know, that’d be ace.
In the meantime – as you know, there’s nothing I like more than a social experiment, and I do pride myself on fairness. So I hereby announce the HMV CHALLENGE. Anyone with a camera-phone can play this. If you are in HMV and see something which you think is good value, send me a picture (via Twitter, or any other way you can; maybe someone on here can leave a Comment about the easiest way. Facebook, Flickr? I don’t really do online photo-sharing). If you are in HMV and see something which is clearly a rip-off, again, send me a picture. If you aren’t equipped to send photos, just give me word-of-mouth evidence.
This is open to anyone who works for HMV as well as the general public. I am genuinely open-minded about this (I’ve not got an axe to grind with HMV at all; as I said, it was just a flip remark) and will publish all the evidence I’m sent, including evidence which contradicts my point of view completely.
Of course this is a very very rough and unscientific way of proving whether or not HMV is, indeed, a bit of a rip-off in the present day and age (the name of a Killers album which is £15.99 in one HMV in London). But it’s still going to be interesting, I think. Just don’t tell Minchin I did something unscientific. It was his fault I had all that wine, incidentally.
I welcome any of your positive and negative thoughts on my career, HMV, and anything else.
Posted by PaoloDelCarmen on January 16, 2011
Comedy is taking the piss out things. You’re always going to offend someone. Whether it be Stan Boardman hating Germans or Frankie Boyle trying to be the most outrageous and acid-tongued person ever, their job is to make you laugh. Sometimes it is a stereotype, sometimes it is not factually correct. But it is funny. I take the piss out of myself sometimes, and I never complain!
Posted by Andrew on January 10, 2011
The high street is expensive. I go into Shops like Wh Smith and Game to look at the merchandise and then buy what I want from their online shops for much cheaper.
Posted by Elle on January 10, 2011
So many people comment on the price of HMV cd’s, they are ridiculous and over priced. The only issue with you making a comment was that you are a popular figure that people can pick on. You are a comedian, you make jokes, the joke about the rising price was not offensive to people who work in HMV but the company HMV who set the prices.
It all got blown out of proportion and you should not have been publicly attacked. n’inquiete pas
you’ve still got followers and fans and the childish responses of some other comedian who I previously found funny were unnecessary.
Posted by chris on January 10, 2011
never mind , you can bet your life the people working at HMV bought all their own dvds on ebay anyway, at those prices they couldnt afford to buy at work, but they expected us to pay the hyped up prices to keep them employed, hypocrites will always find another job
Posted by Catherine on January 9, 2011
Eh, it was a joke about HMV’s prices being high. It’s not like you said “Isn’t it funny that people are going to be losing their jobs because HMV’s prices are too high?” That would have been offensive and upsetting.
I can understand why people working at HMV would find the remark a little upsetting, but they can’t take an off-hand remark so seriously. As you said, comedian’s jokes are always going to offend a minority, you wouldn’t have an act if you aimed to keep everyone happy.
I do think people are taking the comment a little to heart though.
Posted by Jane on January 9, 2011
I wouldn’t bother apologising, I’ve been more offended by Emmerdale than i have by any jokes comedian’s make.
Get over yourselves people.
Posted by Somethingson on January 8, 2011
I don’t think you should feel bad about making a joke like that.
You made a joke about a company, not the people who work there.
Posted by Tom Beasley on January 7, 2011
You can get Stephen Fry and Charlie Brooker books for £3/£4 in my local HMV, which is excellent.
But at the same time, Dara O’Briain’s “Talks Funny” live DVD is £20. As much as I adore Dara, that is extortionate. Even the new Christmas stand-up DVDs tend to aim at a price of about £13/£14.
Posted by Lydia on January 7, 2011
I think you made a fair point, because a lot of things in HMV are way overpriced. I never even bother going in there for that reason, lol.
It’s definitely impossible not to cause anyone offense. I’m a bit crap on this subject, as I think I’ve probably made obvious before. I guess the important thing is that you care when you upset people, which I think is more than can be said for a lot of comedians.
Posted by Rachael on January 7, 2011
I went to get a cd from there yesterday and it was £18. I also wanted a DVD which was £4 on amazon and it was £12.99 in there. So, yes you are right.
Posted by Ashley on January 7, 2011
The whole point of a joke is that it makes people laugh: I’m pretty sure that Mark wasn’t trying to hurt those who’ll lose thier jobsz… the joke wasn’t “hahahahaha!! You’re all gonna lose your jooooobs!!”, it was just a comment that stuff is expensive in HMV (which, it is!)
sometimes I just think people need a bit of perspective; if people thought about everyone who may possibly take offence, I’m pretty sure comedy wouldn’t exist!
but, just in case the Daily Mail’s reading, how about “TAXPAYERS MONEY USED TO FUND WATSON’S UNEMPLOYMENT GAG” as a headline?
Posted by jaz on January 7, 2011
If you take into account the queues in both Norwich stores during Christmas and the sales there obviously are still a lot of people willing to pay high street prices, however they are not willing to queue for 20 minutes to do so. I work in a shop that has a small DVD section and a large proportion of people who came in did so because of queues not prices. Which was great for our business but not for theirs.
It is depressing as someone who works in retail to constantly hear the mantra “it’s cheaper on Amazon / in Tescos” because it is the herald of the demise of our jobs. It is a shame if anyone has to lose their jobs, but unfortunately it seems to be the way things are going.
Posted by DrugCrazed on January 7, 2011
I have a fun game to play at HMV. Its called the van Canto test. Try and find a van Canto or Sabaton album
Now tell me why I should shop there.
Also, there was a massive storm about 3 months back about stores boycotting steam based PC games, because it meant they were selling another store. Never mind the fact that they’ve spent the past 2 years ignoring the PC
Posted by Rob on January 7, 2011
Just out of interest, what would people consider *is* a fair price for a CD? I’ve got no problem paying £15 for one if it’s something that I know artists, sound engineers and the like have worked hard on to ensure that it will give me hours of pleasure.
Posted by zevans23 on January 7, 2011
Has the complainant considered that the negative effect on Mark Watson’s reputation might affect Mark Watson’s livelihood?
In any case – either it’s seen as a joke, in which case it should be taken in good humour, or it’s not seen as a joke, in which case it is an entirely valid criticism of HMV’s failure to modernise. I presume the complainant doesn’t buy newspapers or watch TV or indeed speak to anyone with any sort of opinion on any economic matter at all.
PS I drink Magners, so I’m obviously a shill and you may discount this comment entirely. Or just discount it a bit, although you might then be undercutting, other, less modern comments if you do, have you considered the impact on their families? Eh? Eh?
Posted by Cathy on January 7, 2011
don’t beat yourself up about it Mark, everybody puts their foot in it now and again and anyway, I think if you don’t mean to cause offence then it shouldn’t count … I pride myself on being a “good” person who would never meaningly upset anyone but I still manage to on a regular basis. It gets to the point where you’re scared to say anything which isn’t a good way to live your life
Posted by Craig on January 7, 2011
You used to pay for convenience at HMV. Go in on the day a new CD/Game comes out and have it in your hand and ready to listen to that morning!
Unfortunately now Amazon (and others) are pretty good at getting something to you pretty quickly, and usually for A LOT LESS. Especially if you pre-order it!
I’ve tried HMV online before too, but after a few disappointments and the fact that it’s still more expensive than other online sites, I simply don’t shop there any more.
Having said that, I don’t want HMV high street stores to go. I can’t deal with everything being digital! So hopefully they’ll get into gear and think up some good ideas and business strategies.
Posted by Joelle on January 7, 2011
Minchin’s obviously trying to sabotage your resolution efforts!
I enjoy a reference to The Killers.
In response to the actual post, however, Australia’s main CD/DVD retailer is JB Hi-Fi. I think they’re doing pretty well in keeping up with the internet. Most DVDs go down to about $12 after they’ve been out for a couple of months and most CDs are around $9-$25. Both are cheaper or equal to most things on iTunes in their categort. From what I can gather about exchange rates HMV is ridiculously overpriced. That’s what the joke was about. You weren’t making a joke that lots of people would lose their jobs and be unable to support their families.
I don’t think you did anything wrong.
Posted by Nipper on January 7, 2011
It’s a joke, get over it. My family is fed by money earned at HMV. Times are hard. I have bigger fish to fry than worry about a Twitter joke.
As for pricing HMV simply can’t compete with super markets who offer loss leaders at stupid prices. They also have shop rents to think about which Amazon doesn’t have. The landscape has changed so very quickly regarding how we consume music, did they shut the stable door after the horse had bolted? It’s not always about HMV overpricing it’s sometimes about other venues getting better deals or simple selling an item at a loss.
Towns with multiple HMV will see some close, towns with Fopps that are successful and HMVs that are less profitable will see them merge, people will lose their jobs as HMV need to tighten their belts. Towns with non profitable stores will also see them close. This isn’t at all like Woolies, they were in massive massive debt. If you don’t want to see your HMV close go and buy from it, there are cheap deals you just have to be bothered to go and look for them.
Posted by Madeleine on January 7, 2011
I like record stores. I like massive ones where you can spend hours looking through CDs and DVDs and agonising over which ones you’re going to spend your hard earned money on this week. I love ten dollar movie sales and buy x get y free deals. So I’m pretty concered when any of them goes out of buisness.
That being said, 18 POUNDS for a CD? That’s ridiculous! I try and support independant stores, but when I do go to JB Hi Fi, which is the big chain store here, they’re about $20 each, which I think is fair if you’re paying that extra 4 dollars for the case and liner notes and physicality that you don’t get from itunes. I value digital music a lot less than my CD collection.
Oh, and I think the joke was funny and true. You were pretty obviously making fun of the people who set the prices, not those at the registers.
Posted by Misha on January 7, 2011
I did write a well though tout, witty and intelligent comment. THen the blog ate it. Please imagne it here
Posted by ChrisP on January 7, 2011
Also, I do, deep down, quite like HMV and really want them to do well.
Sort it out HMV! Don’t do a Woolworths!
Posted by ChrisP on January 7, 2011
HMV is a business. If they offer a good service, people will shop there and they will make a profit. If they’re crap, we won’t, and they will fold. Simples.
Whenever I go in, they continually fail to have whatever it is I’m after and if they do have it, it’s extortionate. Nobody has an obligation either as a comedian, consumer or a human being to be quiet about it either way, it’s just business and we are free to talk.
Having said that, there are some bargains in the 2 for £10 DVD sale. I recommend Nowhere boy and In Bruges for starters.
Posted by Melanie on January 7, 2011
I picked up two David Bowie CDs in the HMV sale this Xmas, using my £20 voucher I recieved. One was £3, one was £8. When I went to pay for them, the girl behind the counter first of all complemented me on my choice, and then recognised that the £8 CD was in fact for sale for £3 instead, so even when the queue was really long and they were really busy, she went to find it for me! It was a lovely gesture, and quite brightened my day up.
Posted by Clare on January 7, 2011
Your joke is fair, and I’m sure many HMV employees would agree that some products sold are over priced.
There’s a lot of reasons why this happens, and it’s unfortunate – often chart CD’s and DVD’s have a very low margin because of the purchase price set by the retailer, so most current chart CD’s will only make a few pennies. There’s tonnes of competition online that due to the way the different types of industries operate HMV can’t really compete with – including the online company within the group itself which offers cheaper alternatives to the instore prices (one of the causes of which is the fact that like many online services it is based in Jersey and therefore gets a significant tax break). Not to mention that the demand for physical content in the past 12 months has fallen.
I’m not writing this to excuse the way HMV is operating, merely to highlight some factors that influence the way it has to function. The company has made some mistakes and due to the financial climate and societies progression in regards to the retail entertainment industry these are now making their effects felt. HMV does not simply charge £18 for a CD because it can.
HMV has been a great company to work for, and the vast majority of it’s employees are passionate about what they do and take pride in their job. The current situation is sad, but I think everyone can see the steps that has led it there. There is an element of ‘you’ve brought this on yourselves’ but there are many other factors that have played their part, many of which don’t seem to be being acknowledged.
But things change, life moves on. Don’t feel bad about the joke – it’s honest, and while some pride may be hurt I don’t think anyone involved would deny that it’s true.
Posted by Aislinn on January 7, 2011
For me, HMV is ace. I like stuff from the 80s and 90s, so it’s generally all cheap because it’s been out for years and no-one likes it anymore.
I think new releases are where HMV falls down. Their chart CDs and DVDs are incredibly overpriced; I’d agree with you there. Then again, I don’t ever go near them, so it doesn’t bother me.
Thirdly, I think it’s unfair for people who were offended to tell you. The guy made his point well, and I’m sure it is a hard time for him and other employees, but guilt tripping you with phrases like ‘losing our livelihoods’, especially when all you did was mention that a CD was pretty expensive, seems a bit unnecessary. Personally.
Posted by issey on January 6, 2011
Yeah HMV is expensive compared to mp3 but I love going out to buy a CD. I like having a hard copy of my music + looking at the album artwork. Also the first thing I do after buying a CD (even before I put it on itunes) is to listen to the whole album, in one go, on my walkman. Sad I know, but I’ve always done it!
Posted by JontyLarr on January 6, 2011
I’ve seen flans which are edgier than that joke. If there was a storm in a teacup over it it’s merely evidence that some people have way too much time on their hands.
Posted by Clembear on January 6, 2011
Challenge on – try to come up with material that is completely inoffensive and funny.
You’ll need an offence barometer which I imagine as a narrow tube filled with bile. Then ask a set of people if they find it offensive. Being clear to define offensive beforehand hopefully using my new favourite definition: repugnant to the moral sense.
So not a bit irritated or slightly angry which people seem to be about everything right now, but properly offended.
As an aside, if everyone agreed to not find Frankie Boyle offensive and laugh of everything he said with good humour, he would burst.
Posted by Corey on January 6, 2011
P.s…….I meant to also add, you can get some good deals there!
Posted by Corey on January 6, 2011
Of course someone would react if they were in his situation, but the simple fact is HMV over charge for alot of music and its no surprise that downloads (legal) are becoming the preferred way of buying. I saw a Thievery Corporation CD in there last week for £17.99!?……online it was £7.99.
If you don’t get your prices right and adapt your business to the trends…….you won’t last.
All you did was comment on it……so what?
Posted by DeborahF on January 6, 2011
I agree with lots of others here as in I don’t think the comment you made was unreasonable in the circumstances. HMV staff are not the only people whose jobs are at risk and yes you probably hit a raw nerve for the individual but that doesn’t mean you’re point of view wasn’t valid.
What saddens me most about the situation is the reason they are doing this apart from falling sales as in they also “admitted it was having trouble meeting the terms of a bank loan” That seems to have been somewhat lost in the whole CDs & DVDs are obsolete debate
I could make a comment now about bankers but I won’t in case I start another ‘storm in a teacup’
Posted by Craig on January 6, 2011
I wouldn’t bother worrying about, some people just love to winge and moan and your right about hmv I tried to buy the second series of spooks and they charged 45 quid for it
Posted by Lisa D on January 6, 2011
I have some mild sympathy for the guy who wrote to you but not much. When HMV showed up on our shores it was in a place called Harvard Square, formerly home to several thriving indie music stores. I say formerly because all of them went under the year HMV came to town. Like Starbucks they planted themselves next door and dropped their prices to a level no indie could hope to compete with. As soon as they’d killed off everyone around them they were suddenly charging $20 for a CD. How much sympathy did HMV employees have for the other guys? Or did they bother noticing? When HMV had to shut down their Harvard Square store there was a little celebration hosted by a local radio station. The DJ’s made quite a few jokes–jokes WAY harsher than your tweet–most of them on the (unjustified) theme of Boston once again sending the British packing. So yeah, people lose their jobs when companies fail, but way more people lose their jobs when companies operate in an amoral fashion.
I do think people get a bit hypersensitive in this instant media age. When a comment shows up on your phone it feels personal, even when it isn’t
Posted by Laura-B on January 6, 2011
I was going to post something meaningful about HMV and market economics, but I got totally distracted by the idea of getting drunk on red wine with you and Tim Minchin. What a night!
Posted by Miles on January 6, 2011
I think your comment was humourous and fair Mark. I do have sympathy with HMV’s business though. The cost of running the business from the High Street with prime rental costs and undoubtedly higher staff costs than can be enjoyed from some exclusively online retailers has to recovered some how. If people want to have music or book stores in the High Street than we have to be prepared to meet the additional costs that this entails.
Posted by Anna Lowman on January 6, 2011
It is completely fine for you to make that comment, and it’s completely fine for someone to respond, as part of the general conversation, saying they’ll lose their job if HMV does go under. What strikes me as a bit unreasonable is for someone to suggest that his/her personal situation means you shouldn’t have made the joke in the first place…
Posted by Megan on January 6, 2011
HMV is tanking in Canada as well. They used to be all over the place, but now, I think, there are five left in the city. A city of a million people. Indie shops are fairly just as poorly.
Their prices are just as baffling in colonies, BTW. Sometimes you can buy two CDs, and not entirely crap ones, for $20 (about £13?), other times a DVD box set is priced $50 more than it is on Amazon or at Best Buy.
Posted by Anji on January 6, 2011
You can’t please them all. And some people just don’t want to be pleased.
It’s sad that anyone has to worry about losing a job, etc etc. But we can’t all then NOT say something because someone might get upset. The truth can hurt and any other little sayings that would be suitable – insert here -
Posted by Amy on January 6, 2011
Mark. You’re about the most inoffensive comedian I’ve ever heard. And you worry too much. Your comment was just that: a comment, which was a valid point directed at no-one in particular. Why should he try to guilt you into believing otherwise? I think someone just had a bad day.
As an aside, I saw the DVD of Juno for £3 in HMV two days ago, as well as a Rufus Wainwright CD at £15. I wanted Rufus. I did not want Juno. I bought neither. But if Rufus was cheaper, I would have bought both.
Posted by Gordon Jones on January 6, 2011
Isn’t there a glaringly obvious solution to the whole overpricing thing? Just have special machines (like computers only restricted and more dedicated to serving the intended task) that let people come in with their various mp3 players or usb sticks and purchase mp3 copies of music. The whole premise of shop browsing needn’t be changed either, someone could just come in, pick up a kasabian album say, hand their chosen purchase to the person behind the counter along with the medium they’d like to store it in and then get asked ‘would you like the physical copy with that sir/madam?’ and just as shops now charge £5 for long life bags so HMV can legitimately charge a hideous markup for the actual product and sell the actual music cheaply at the same time. Students can shop at HMV as albums are as cheap as sweets and there’s no faffing with burning to computer and exporting to a device while parents and cousins can buy music gifts for people that actually exist and can therefore be unwrapped while the artists themselves have more incentive to put effort into the album cover since if a £20 box is going to contain a £1 of music then it might as well look like 95% of the budget has been spent on the artwork.
And that joke was probably too soon seeing as HMV isn’t even dead yet but harmless enough
Posted by Morganzilla on January 6, 2011
I briefly worked at Virgin, and the boss told me they run at a loss all year, then make up for it at Xmas and (inexplicably) Easter. If HMV has a similar business model, no wonder they’re in the shit. Admittedly I got a couple of CDs for £7 each there before Xmas, probably cheaper on amazon but if you’re gonna do your Xmas shopping 2 days before Xmas, you can’t afford to be too picky about it! But they were charging about £15 for an Eddie Izzard documentary that had just been shown on TV, which doesn’t seem like a sensible buy. Personally I prefer to shop online, partly cos it’s cheaper, partly cos I hate shopping, and mainly because it’s hard to find anything I want in HMV. When your taste in music goes beyond X Factor crap, you have to shop online.
Anyway, if you have to worry about offending people who have lost their jobs, best not say anything at all. Ever. I got made redundant a few months ago along with several friends, and almost everyone I know is teetering on the edge of unemployment. But that’s really no reason to get all offended by comedians stating facts. I am offended by my drunk twat of a neighbour loudly referring to me as “gyppo dole scum” but that’s another matter…
Posted by Louise on January 6, 2011
Great post Mark! Having spent 10 years with Virgin/zavvi I know how the at-risk HMV staff feel. I’m sure they know that customers can’t justify paying twice as much in their store than it would be online or in a supermarket. It’s just really emotional to loose a job you love and people get defensive. We all did. The store staff wish the product could be cheaper too but I guess it’s all based on purchasing structures. I thought HMV would have a bit longer and I hope that the closures make them stronger for those that remain. It’s so sad for the stores that don’t make it.
Posted by Garry Lee on January 6, 2011
Simon, there is still the possibility of capturing a ‘physical media’ market with the resurgence in the buying of vinyl records. Sadly, whoever prices these things at HMV seems to think £15 for a single album is fair, which I reject, especially given their opportunity to buy a large amount of stock at once and cut the costs to themselves.
I’ll tell you what happened to me today. I visited my local music store (well, my favourite local store an hour and a half bus journey from my house), and on seeing me enter the store, the owner came out from behind the counter and shook me by the hand and said “Happy New Year Garry”. I’ve only been going to that store for 2 years. They specialise in selling new albums (yes, even chart albums) on vinyl, and they make a good living from it. The level of customer service and the range of music they have is excellent, especially for a small store.
With HMVs massive stores, you would think that they could manage to have a better selection that goes beyond the graverobbing Best Of CDs of Miles Davis and Elvis Presley. Imported single vinyl albums cost around £10-13 from that store, whereas even the most basic release by a band like Franz Ferdinand (the album Blood) is £13.99. The HMV I pass every day started putting up 4 foot signs to say that today, the chart topping album was reduced in price by a whole £1! The same album that was at least £2 cheaper still from Amazon.
If HMV goes down the pan, good riddance. They’ve had every opportunity to have my money. On CDs, vinyl, DVDs and games, I can find the same thing for a better price anywhere else, and have the satisfaction of knowing that I am helping a local business. They have been ripping the arse out of their pricing for years now, and it would actually save me an hour and 10 minutes and the price of a return bus ticket to my favourite store if I was to shop at the HMV that is only 20 minutes from my house.
Posted by Mike Grant on January 6, 2011
Thing is, Mark, when I heard the news this morning, I thought exactly the same thing as you: about all those overpriced CDs that I would never think of buying.
Posted by Cherise on January 6, 2011
Their soon to be jobless workers are feeling tense, sure, but they didn’t get moody with the right person and it’s just silly of HMV to not bother adapting to the current financial climate. Amazon are unbeatable online but for the highstreet they haven’t bothered trying to compete with Fopp or the book and music Oxfam shops. Good luck to all of the people looking for work.
Posted by Sam on January 6, 2011
It was a mild joke, some people were mildly offended, but they seem to have expressed themselves reasonably and calmly and you apologised. I see it that you weren’t taking back the joke just saying that you were sorry to someone who was offended as you didn’t mean to cause offense.
I liken this to if you accidentally bumped into someone in the street and apologised, you aren’t apologising for the act of walking, just that you caused some irritance whilst doing so.
Posted by Nicola Clark on January 6, 2011
I’d rather see a million tweets, jokes or blogs by you which may unintentionally offend than a single hate fuelled deliberate swipe by some people.
Your comedy comes from a good place as they say. It’s not hate speech wrapped up as irony attempting to pretend it has a higher purpose. It’s not based on lazy humour reliant on shock value trying to sell out tickets.
Therefore it can’t be misconstrued by those with a negative agenda who like to punch down rather than up.
Free speech yes hate speech no.
PS- in case anyone asks I don’t read the daily mail, I’m not instigating “PC gone mad” and I do like a laugh.
Posted by Emily on January 6, 2011
I think you can’t stay relevant and new as a comedian without talking about current issues. It’s always going to touch a nerve with someone, often people who aren’t even directly affected and enjoy being outraged on other people’s behalf. These are the people who write to the Daily Mail, and tut as a hobby. Its nice you worry about things like this, though as you said, there are many more people who support you than criticise.
On HMV, I bought a record player on a whim a couple of years ago, and HMV do current music on vinyl fairly cheaply, about 50p for a single last time I went in. Also, I like CDs more than downloads.
Posted by lisan66 on January 6, 2011
I refuse to buy anything in HMV unless it’s exceptionally cheap. And considering everything in Ireland is converted from sterling to euro and then doubled, most things in HMV are expensive. I’m also not a big music poerson, but they do have lots of great dvd offers in there. And over here, all you’ve really got in the way of competition in Golden Discs, who are even more expensive. I can’t remember what my point is anymore, but I’ll post this like this and see if I can remember later when I stop watching Two and a Half Men
Posted by Jamie/James on January 6, 2011
Just tweeted this, I love a bit of 90s pop. Amazon has it at £4.93. HMV: http://twitpic.com/3nkyzi
Posted by pollyanna_hates (twitter) on January 6, 2011
Blown out of proportion. You shouldn’t care, thats whats good about Frankie Boyle, he doesn’t. Theres people dying all over the world, I think those with longer hair in society will go without a job for a couple of months, then get over it and stop abusing you.
Posted by Adam on January 6, 2011
Hmv are putting themselves out of business.
They charge well over the odds for pretty much everything, today in there sale I saw a game for £17.99 (in the sales) , I took out my mobile phone and checked
the price online play and amazon £15.99 (not in a sale). In fact hmv are so bad I had a £20 gift voucher (I won it) go out of date simple because there was nothing in the shop worth buying.
as for being worried about the people on the shop floor being out of work, untill last september I was a civil servant I’m now out of work due to the governments lack of business sense.
Get over it. And look for another job people! It’ll be you me and all the people from woolworths..zavvi..electronics boutique .. Borders..the list goes on.
Posted by edenvalleygirl on January 6, 2011
Hey. Read your bit about HMV and the comment you made. What’s the problem? No ones job is safe. Everyone everywhere is at threat of redundancy, pretty much, at the moment. We can’t stop other people commenting on our employers or our industries, and if someone far away says something general that is clearly not a personal dig there is no need to get upset about it, really. If minor comments upset you then stay away from Twitter! And 18 QUID is a lot for a CD these days, regardless of which shop is selling it. Good luck HMV people, and dont take it personally!
Posted by Beth (@Doomed1) on January 6, 2011
Today I feel I have to comment!
Your statement was absolutely fine, yes its awful about people losing jobs, but you didnt make any comment about that, and it annoys me people feel they can comment at you about it. Otherwise we might as well all sit in silence, incase someone links something to something else!!
Im a bit in the middle with all the PC jokes at the moment, there was a new thing about Frankie Boyle, I rolled my eyes, then watched him on never mind the buzzcocks, and jsut felt people were looking at things to be annoyed at now!
I used to buy CD’s every week and all from HMV, but living out in a small town, if I have to buy a CD it will come from Amazon, half the price and free delivery! Or I listen to it free and legally.
I went in HMV for the sale the other day, and found myself looking at things I wanted, and thinking Ill save a couple of quid and order them when I get home! Wish I could still justify buying from them!!
And To Declan – I Simon Amstells DVD any good? I’ve been umming and aghhing for a couple of weeks about getting it!
Also Mark, Hear your in Bristol Town on the 19th!! See you there!!
Posted by Louise on January 6, 2011
What about Fopp? What will happen to them?
Posted by Andy on January 6, 2011
Speaking of products, you are one. You’re a comedian and your product is you. Like HMV’s target audience, your followers can buy into you or ignore you.
That you have a conscience is good from a human point of view. Whether it will affect your comedic value for better or worse is to be seen. When you curate your professional ethics you of course curate your followers at the same time (bye bye sad HMV man)
Right now you’re reviewing your ‘business plan’ based on consumer behaviour. Maybe HMV will learn from you. Or maybe you’ll turn into a giant container for plastic discs with loads of twats queuing up inside you for an autograph from JLS.
Posted by Liza on January 6, 2011
You were spot on Mark! Wanted to buy season 7 of 24 at the start of december, had just finished season 6 that day and wanted to move onto the next – so I made my way into the overcrowded overpriced store expecting to pay more than online but not as much more as I saw!
Amazon – 24 season 7, 24 redemption and dexter season 4 all for 42ish pounds
HMV – 50 pounds just for season 7 of 24!
Easy choice really – and for the difference in price I happily waited for the mail man to arrive
Posted by Amy Chester-Sterne on January 6, 2011
If you have to think about what audience you’ve got everytime you tell a joke on Twitter there would be no jokes at all. You cannot know the backgrounds of everyone who follows you and it is unfair of people to expect you to. As much as I feel very sorry for the person affronted there are bound to be plenty more jokes about HMV to come
Posted by Chris on January 6, 2011
Mark, you’re thinking about it too much! Keep doing what you do best!
Hope to see you in Cheltenham again soon!
Posted by mark field on January 6, 2011
hi mark,
I agree with what you have said,whilst it is a massive shame some people will lose their jobs and i really sympathise with them,i have not shopped in hmv for years as the overcharge for a lot of things some cd’s are £18 why i ask when you can get it cheaper elsewhere?
And with that being the case you are going to shop online or another outlet and as someone who has seen your act i can say that you are a funny comedian who doesn’t set out to be overly offensive but at the same time it must be hard to find that balancing act of not offending/not offending some people because somebody some where will be offended by the slightest thing.
carry on doing what you do and for those about to lose their jobs, my sympathy.
Posted by hussan on January 6, 2011
Your comments were only the truth. HMV is struggling, high prices is a major issue for HMV.. You’re a comedian, you made the odd joke. People need to chill out, its not like ur responsible for HMV struggling or the people that work on the shop floor are responsible for its ridiculous pricing..if anyones to blame its the management.
Keep doing what u do mark, personally I think ur one of the funniest, smartest comedians around!
Posted by Peet Clack on January 6, 2011
To be fair, the reason Zavvi went down was because the Woolworth group was their main supplier! But a good article nonetheless. When Woolies was going down, although it was upsetting and there were a few tears amongst staff at our branch, because obviously we were losing our jobs, there was also a lot of good old gallows humour, which made a bitter pill a little easier to swallow. I wouldn’t worry too much. You seem like a very mild and considerate chap-I’m sure I can take it!! ;o)
Posted by John Ryan on January 6, 2011
I don’t think it is directly linked but I have travelled fair distances around our wonderful land to see you perform – Edinburgh, London and even Blackburn… Yes, Blackburn!! I have been to two HMVs both of which were 100 yards from each other on the same street, had the same postcode (I suspect) and were both huge – one of them is now closed. I used to question why there were two shops within such proximity?
Now that was not a very scientific way to analyse my Watson v HMV allegiances but I do think I make some sort of point. “In this day and age” of the interwebs and online shopping; for all kinds of things from groceries to clothes, comedy DVDs to “actual” gig tickets companies have had to adapt and (I hate this word in business terms) diversify. Many stores with high business costs in central locations with high rents and business rates will always lose out to businesses who can work from cheap warehousing and in some cases work from a kind of tax haven (the isle of Jersey) then it is no suprise that retail outlets will struggle.
I do sympathise when it comes to people losing their jobs and to get this news just after Xmas can only be awful for the people this will affect at the start of this new year. I wouldn’t want to see the “dog and gramophone” go in the same direction of woolies, our price and the dodo!
As for my allegiances in the “battle” of Watson v HMV then all I can say is a joke is a joke, that’s what comedians do! Can’t please everyone all of the time… HMV are struggling to do that (it’s a joke! Relax!)
I genuinely feel for the families affected by this news and I hope that HMV can do enough to continue to trade and protect/provide as many jobs as possible. (that almost sounds like I am apologising on Mark’s behalf)
Posted by John Q on January 6, 2011
I don’t think your comments were harsh, just realistic. As has already been said market forces, dictate where the public will spend their money and why pay over the odds for a product ?
Posted by Moosecatear on January 6, 2011
In regards to getting offended, I think the problem was that what you tweeted wasn’t an actual joke – it was almost as if you were saying “No surprise HMV are in trouble, they’re too expensive”, which isn’t that funny really. I’m a fan of contraversial comedians as well!!
Posted by Justine on January 6, 2011
What did David Mitchell say? ‘It just goes to show, you can never be too careful!’ ;0)
My husband worked for MFI for over 20 years and lost his job when they went bust (who’d have thought MFI would ever go under). He got another job and got laid off and then finally got a brilliant job in a museum but his job is now under threat due to public funding cuts by the govt.
Your comment is a storm in a teacup but i can understand why some people might be upset, they’re worried sick about their future.
You shouldn’t let it bother you too much though, it’s such an uncertain time for so many people.
Posted by Linzy on January 6, 2011
Bargain at HMV (no photo as it was a while ago): Limited Edition Beatles Rock Band for the Wii, with all the instruments – £50.
My thoughts on what’s happened? It was a decent and justified point about the company; I once paid £18 for a Placebo album, rather begrudgingly as it’s just too much to pay for an album. Yes, people will lose jobs with the closures, which is unfortunate, but the tweet was clearly not about them; such a shame people are so solipsistic at times.
Posted by Daniel on January 6, 2011
On the question of HMVs value for money, I went into the sale on boxing day, really hoping to find some bargains, but also to try and support high street shops, but armed with an Internet enabled phone, it was almost impossible to find something which wasn’t available cheaper online at Amazon. The only things they matched Amazon on where some film DVDs going for £5, but in this bracket where just films I’d probably only watch once (maybe twice) so at £2 a rental Lovefilm works out a lot cheaper.
I have a lot of sympathy of anyone whose job is on the line as I have family who work in high street retail, but HMVs prices simply aren’t competitive.
Posted by Simon on January 6, 2011
I think that this blog and the fact that you sympathised with the guy. proves that you are a comedian with humanity – which is something that I think is is short supply (perhaps I’m being harsh on comedians there).
People will be upset if you do comedy about real life, but it is more authentic than a load of ‘knob jokes’. You can’t please all of the people all of the time. I imagine it is a very difficult balance to strike – being funny but not upsetting people too much. Even if you think carefully before you make a joke you’ll still upset people, and with comedy timing is everything (I know this because I often think of witty things to say ten minutes after they’d be funny).
What I find funny/interesting/moving/touching about your comedy is that it is about real life keep doing that please.
Posted by MarkJorgy on January 6, 2011
It’s a completely fair point and lest we forget true. Individual people may suffer and thats always shame but you can’t empathise with corporations because of the humanity of their employees.
They do charge too much for product on the decline and therefore its no surprise that they are struggling, being a former customer of theirs I’d imagine, then you’re perfectly justified in casting judgement. Personally I though your comment could have been a lot worse. I’d have gone for trying to use the HMV acronym as something smug and pithy about their plight.I wont.
But apparently Rumbelows representatives are furious that you also suggested that £19 for a cassette is unreasonable too.
How could you.
Posted by cs192 on January 6, 2011
I do occasionally shop in HMV (since it’s enjoying its lack of high street competition) but tend to only buy things in the sales/3 for £20 type offers. I therefore buy a lot of DVDs that aren’t necessarily cool or popular, but do happen to contain films I want on them, for a decent price. I also constantly look to see how much they’re selling albums I’ve wanted for years and almost always baulk at the fact the Bluetones Expecting to Fly CD is nearly £20.
I don’t like downloading music/films, and not just because my hard-drive is old, knackered and full. I like having the stuff, but I’m not prepared to pay £20 for the stuff when I can get it on spotify for free (or off ebay for a fiver)
I’ll be sad if HMV dies as I’m an avid Waterstones customer, but you’re right in as much that they do need to change some of their practices
Posted by Moosecatear on January 6, 2011
HMV are in trouble and are closing 60 of their stores. As far as I can see, this is their way of moving along in today’s climate – cutting out the stores that are making a loss in the hope that the business can be saved. This is the best for the business, however this isn’t the best for the employees. HMV have been faced with decreasing physical CD and DVD sales for a while and should have reacted a lot better to the way the market is going, the fact that they haven’t is by fault of the management who should have been doing a lot more to protect their employees.
As a person who lost their job in a similar situation in 2009, I really hope that HMV and their partner company Waterstones, have the sense to react to what their customers want and are therefore able to save the livelihoods of their employees. I am not looking forward to the days when we have no bookshops or music shops on our high streets.
Posted by EarthAD on January 6, 2011
Mark as you pointed out HMV have always ripped off the record/dvd buying public and for the simple reason there was no alternative other then buying from them. When i go to HMV i recognise some of the staff as people who used to work in the small independent shops that existed before HMV pushed them out of business with their 2 for £10 deals for example.
However now the tables have turned and the likes of amazon and Play are now undercutting HMV massively. thus pushing them out of business. why pay £18 for a cd when you can get it for £7 online and in some cases ironically from an indie online shop using amazon as a store front.
HMV staff should be looking to blame their bosses for the business model they use and not a comic for pointing out the obvious.
Posted by Simon on January 6, 2011
I totally agree with you, it’s sad that these people will lose their jobs, but it’s not your fault for commenting on the fact that the bottom has fallen out of the ‘physical media’ market. CD’s are obsolete, and the DVD is becoming slowly less popular, be it through piracy or on demand TV rentals. The book is the only thing that I can think people are fighting against the ‘digitalisation’ of. When a company folds, people lose their job, it’s unfortunate, but it’s business.
Posted by Declan on January 6, 2011
Fair point I would say. The joke wasn’t aimed at anyone in particular so it seems a bit churlish for individuals to take offence. In any case, I bought Simon Amstells DVD in HMV a few weeks ago and it cost me £8. Probably would have paid more, as it happens.