Dress code
Essentially, this is just another entry to avoid the fate of failing to update this blog. There won’t be much insight in it. It’s twenty to midnight.
The other night I presented this awards ceremony, as you have heard. I had to wear a suit. When it came to posing to photos, I left my shirt untucked, because I’d been there for hours and my already lax standards of dress had slipped. Quite a few people commented on these pictures, not least because I had also presented a Sony Award a couple of months ago and pictures of me with another untucked shirt were circulated on the internet. Why are you so scruffy! people asked. Can’t you dress up properly?
It’s led me to think a little bit about smart attire. It’s a strange idea. Why is is that we wear suits? How can you prove that a suit is ‘smarter’ than, for example, jeans? Why are ties – peculiar things, which hang about y0ur neck – seen as a statement that you’re taking things seriously, but for example a beret would be seen as unforgivably louche? In short, who decides what smart clothes are? And why?
I mean, why do millions of people - estate agents, bankers, lawyers - get up every morning and put on a starchy shirt and a jacket and tie and shiny shoes? Why do we do put such effort into convincing people we’re serious, in a way we wouldn’t be if we were wearing a tracksuit? Or is it quite a good idea to have something which elevates some people above others?
Oh dear, this is quite interesting, but there’s no time. There’s four minutes. I’d better post this and you can imagine all the things I WOULD have said on this subject if I wasn’t about to pass midnight and turn into a blog Cinderella.
Discuss.
Posted by Rachael on June 26, 2010
We must be pre-programmed to think that what people wear says something about them, but it usually does. Like wearing a track suit when you are not at a sporting event makes me think you are a chav who is probably going to mug me.
Posted by Val on June 21, 2010
Er… that should have been ‘put on a suit’ not ‘put in a suit’ (unless of course they are very strange farmers who think that an internal investigation of a cow’s womb would benefit from a suit…)
Posted by Val on June 21, 2010
Two things. First the dressing smartly (or not). I don’t give a flying fck about dressing smartly, myself. I like to wear clothes that make me feel comfortable. I moved out of London, England to a rural area in Wales and here nobody gives a damn. People here rarely dress up because it’s rural, muddy or dusty (depending on how much rain there’s been) and really – what good is a suit anyway? Farmers sticking their hands into cows innards are not going to put in a suit.
When I got married my husband forgot to remove his keychain or tuck his shirt into his trousers and neither of us looked like we were about to get married. Our love for each other was the thing that day, not what we were wearing.
On the other hand… for the sake of respect, in some situations, I think it’s necessary. Like a funeral (what a fun topic. Not).
Next… this thing of updating your blog.I read your blog ‘cos you don’t write a typical ‘celeb’ blog. I started reading your blog BEFORE I’d ever seen any of your work/comedything. So I read you as an ordinary person who just happens to be a comedian/stand up (what do you call this job of yours?) And I know (as an artist) that writing a blog as oneself on ordinary every day subjects or even thinking aloud, is difficult as soon as one has ‘fans’, as one starts writing for them, not for oneself.
So sometimes it’s a good idea to stand back, take a deep breath and stop worrying about whether you’re going to produce a ‘good’ blog post and just post regardless. You have a bad day – so rant a bit and then get off do something different. Play with your kid, do something with your partner/spouse (anything!), go off on your own and get on with another interest, work, anything really, but don’t let your blog be a worry.
Be well!
Posted by Laura on June 21, 2010
I always have the best intention when it comes to dressing nicely, but I just feel awkward and that everyone is staring at me thinking ‘what does she look like?’. Hence I have drawers stuffed full of skirts and wardrobes full of lovely dresses that I never wear.
Posted by MusicalLottie on June 20, 2010
Class. It’s as simple as that.
Or maybe it’s not. But it mainly comes down to that anyway.
I’ll never forget an assembly (c. 7 years ago) in which our headteacher spoke to us about dressing smartly. He said that dressing smartly changes the way one feels, and it’s so true. I’m one of those people that likes to dress reasonably smartly anyway (I was the only girl to wear a tie in middle school) so ever since then I’ve made sure my shoes are polished and my shirts tucked in! Not to say that I don’t enjoy lazing around in jogging bottoms and a big, baggy T-shirt, but whenever I go out I like to be reasonably smartly dressed. Unless I have a reason not to be, like when I’ve just been caving
Posted by Laura-B on June 20, 2010
I’m a primary school teacher. My daily clothes struggle involves finding something that is “smart” but that doesn’t matter when it gets paint/glue/snot on it. Thank heavens for Primark!!
Posted by Aislinn on June 20, 2010
P.S. Having just read Madeleine’s comment, I’d like to agree/sympathise with the prom situation. I’ve always been a tomboy. When I was 16, however, and slightly rebellious – not to mention that everybody around me absolutely loved the idea of buying a dress and heels for prom – this problem of mine was only exacerbated. I wore flat shoes to my prom but had to also wear a dress after finding out, having already bought my ticket, that ‘black suit or evening dress’ was required. As a result, I felt uncomfortable all night, didn’t eat, dance and went home miserable.
This wasn’t for work, or a job interview, or anything where anyone is in charge of you. We had, with our tickets, covered the cost of the venue hire, the food and the drink. This was supposed to be an evening to celebrate our time at high school, and so I don’t understand how, in this situation, we could be told what we had to wear.
Posted by Aislinn on June 20, 2010
I think it’s to show that, for certain occasions, you’ve made an effort. If there weren’t ever any dress codes (as there aren’t in day-to-day life), people would walk around wearing their usual clothes like jeans, trainers, hoodies etc. Suits are perhaps slightly less comfortable, which is why people are very unlikely to wear them without a cause, but which is also probably why they’re classified as ‘smart’ clothing – because, as it’s something people normally wouldn’t wear, it shows that they’ve made an effort. Which then, perhaps, comes off well professionally?!
Also I suppose it helps some people to distinguish work from, well, play. But asides from that, I’m not too sure. The one thing that’s always puzzled me re. smart clothing is how women can get away with loads of different things whereas men can only really choose a suit.
Posted by amycool on June 20, 2010
I just wrote a message, read it back, and realised that I sounded like a robot, spewing out unlinked sentences.
I think the moral of this story is that my thoughts on clothes, smart or otherwise, are too incoherent to warrant being published in any format. It’s a mystery to me why people put any emphasis at all on whether or not your shirt is tucked in, especially as you’re a comedian.
Posted by Barry Manana on June 20, 2010
Speaking as a fashion dyslexic I can only sympathise. I once got reprimanded by the hostess at a posh dinner party for wearing a clip-on bow tie – though I totally won her over when I revealed the suspender belts holding up my socks!
Posted by Britt on June 20, 2010
Fashion is a fickle little thing, yet we let ourselves be controlled by it.
I guess sometimes it’s just a matter of taste – personally, I quite like suits. Well, the right stuits on the right people. Like the Doctor – both David Tennant and Matt Smith know how to look good in a suit.
But then, the suit as a uniform in my mind has negative connotations – I see businessmen in suits, and in my mind I group them all together as “suits” – mindless corporate beings with little or no personality. I’m sure this is hardly the case – a man in a suit is just as likely to be interesting as a man in a tracksuit – but that’s just the stereotype that I instantly associate.
Posted by Madeleine on June 20, 2010
It’s because those types of clothes are more expensive I guess, which ties in with what other people were saying about class. The idea could be that if you were willing to spend a lot of money on an outfit for the occasion, then you’re more serious about it or something.
They’re always telling us at school to have “pride in our appearence” tucked in shirts, neat tied back hair ect, but this makes most people feel more uncomfortable than proud. I personally always feel a bit off with my hair back, but I have to do it every day for school.
Last year I went to a friends formal (kind of like a prom? I don’t know what the British equivalent is) and I was going to wear a short dress but was constantly met with shocked looks and “To a FORMAL?!” untill I relented, feeling quite angsty about it all night. I also was pressured into wearing heels, which I don’t like because I’m already tall and can’t walk in them.
This year though, it’s my formal and fuck peer pressure, I’ll wear skinny jeans an a Radiohead t-shirt if I want to (I don’t. But I could.) It seems ridiculous that a night that is supposed to be about our achievments in highschool comes down to who spent the most on a hairpiece and fake tan.
Posted by LisaD on June 20, 2010
I rarely wear skirts and if I do they are very long and comfy so I won’t have to go\ find all the fooffera that goes with wearing little dresses like stockings and high heels. I have the advantage of being a lez on the butch side so it’s actually expected that my smart wardrobe will be on the Ellen DeGeneres/Sue Perkins side of the spectrum. Of course with that ease and comfort there is also all of the judge-y bullshit that comes with it. Frankly I think the whole thing is ridiculous. A while back Craig Ferguson pointed out during his show that he has to wear a suit and tie every night because back in the early sixties the first late night talk show host wore what was considered normal attire for his time and now all talk show hosts have to dress the same way for all eternity or the world as we know it will end. Last week his point rather weirdly was proven when he started wearing sneakers instead of dress shoes and unleashed a flood of internet foolishness. There was an actor at the Tony Awards last weekend who is Nigerian and plays a Nigerian jazz musician in the role being celebrated that night so he wore traditional shoes made by a woman in his tribe and ended up on three worst-dressed lists. I don’t get it. Why isn’t the standard looking reasonably good in whatever pleases one? I like watching the start of awards shows to see how lovely everyone looks, but there is something that gets missed a lot: no matter how attractive the look if someone looks utterly miserable in their clothes they automatically look worse.
For the record, I’ve seen pictures of you with your shirt untucked and I thought you looked adorable, hip even.
Posted by Sue on June 20, 2010
Your attire shouldn’t matter, but it does because unfortunately people judge; they shouldn’t but they do; unless you’re rich, then attire doesn’t matter.
I guess the answer is, Mark needs more money.
Posted by Shell on June 20, 2010
Having just read both this blog and Friday’s I’ll say I also hate tucking shirts in and I think people should just wear what they feel comfortable in. I don’t like ties and don’t think a man looks under dressed without one. I am supposed to wear a suit for work but it feels like fancy dress and can create a barrier, making me seem too ‘official’ and important, so when teaching so I tend not to.
So wear what you want Mark – people were rude to comment actually, unless it was in jest. Not worth your consideration even. You’re not scruffy just ‘relaxed casual’ like most of us.
With regard to Friday’s blog: Your honesty is just one of the things I admire about you. I like people who are open and clear and the way you air your feelings makes me feel a bit better when I need to air my own. I have a tendency to assume some things are calamitous when actually they are not, depends on my mood. I had a bit of a hissy fit in Tescos when they discontinued their humous and sun-dried tomato dip! *
No apology was needed, we all have to admit to negativity sometimes and we like you just the way you are: ‘untucked’…
x
* I /was/ in a VERY bad mood and I LOVED that humous and sun-dried tomato dip.
Posted by Ben Draper on June 20, 2010
Excellent use of the word “louche”. It’s one of the words I wish I could use more often. I’m hampered by not knowing exactly what it means.
Posted by Chris (Cambs/Bath) on June 20, 2010
Just read the other comments, good point about gender being made; it is easier for men in a way because we just have to wear a suit which is all very straight forward and easy to choose etc, but we do have to wear ties (Like Corey said) which women don’t and they are a real pain in the ne… arse. Basically there’s a lot to do with gender regarding what ‘society will allow you to wear’ kinda thing.
Also Misha said something which reminded me of something my psychology lecturer said once about James Dean who wore jeans/vest (worker clothing) and a shirt (posh person clothing) which apparently caused outrage at first but soon became a fashion statement of its own.
I now remember a whole 2 hour lecture on this so if you really want me to kill this debate completely dead…
Now, it’s late so I’m going to take my breeches off and go to sleep.
Posted by Kate W on June 20, 2010
As Misha’s already said, think it originates in ideas of class and what constitutes working clothes depending on what class you are. Clothes have always been a way of encoding social status, to the point that Roman emperors were the only people allowed to purple and medieval European courts had quite complex sumptuary laws governing who was allowed to wear certain colours, fabrics, trims, furs etc to make sure their clothes were “appropriate” to the position in society. Since Mark’s mentioned Cinderella, she’s high on the list of (fictional) people using clothes to put on a status they don’t have. In her magical ballgown and glass slippers, she’s a princess – without them, she’s a servant the Prince doesn’t recognise.
There are fewer and fewer occasions (and even workplaces) these days that really demand smart clothing and that dress code is even looser – if more complicated – for women than it is for men. And in some ways, I don’t think a suit is the ultimate sartorial status symbol any more. You could argue that not having to wear one actually shows higher status – estate agents tend to wear suits to work, but film directors and other creative types, however highly-paid, don’t.
I didn’t know what black tie was before going to university, but have noticed that wearing a dinner jacket makes the vast majority of men at least 50% more attractive. And bow ties you have to tie and infinitely better than the elasticated, pre-tied ones – means you can un-tie them suavely towards the end of the evening. Just my opinion there, obviously….
Posted by Kathryn on June 20, 2010
I agree with rachel- suits are so easy. Formal/ smart dressing is a minefield for girls. Particularly if you only own flipflops and tshirts.
I think suits hark back to ye olden times when everyone wore hats. Although according to the incredibly posh man commentating on Royal Ascot “formal daywear is in a terminal decline” or something equally out of touch with the real world.
Posted by Gabi on June 20, 2010
Got too excited trying to comment.I agree with Rachel. Men get it easier as a three piece suit is guaranteed to look wicked. Though with us we have to either find a trouser suit which doesn’t make us look mishapen or overly masculine, or a skirt which isn’t too short that is inappropriate for formal wear but not so long that certain shorter people like myself are drowned in a sear of fabric.
Posted by Someone on June 20, 2010
Mm, maybe it’s that smart clothes are generally uncomfortable and therefore you can’t relax in them (unless you modify them by untucking, loosening and so forth) so you’re more on the ball than if you were wearing say, a dressing gown which you might tend to fall asleep in, and generally just care about sales figures less in.
There’s nothing like a stiff, high-collared shirt with a colourful noose and hard, noisy shoes to keep you up-tight and ‘paying attention’ to whatever is at hand – i’m guessing is the theory at least. There’s probably due an about turn in smart attire at some point, right. I vote ponchos all round.
The robots are replacing us as we speak anyway though, so no need to make an effort soon enough! (oops… depressing? Nah)
Posted by Chris (Cambs/Bath) on June 20, 2010
I guess essentially it’s to do with stereotyping. If somebody dresses smartly (for example in a suit) you can assume they are a smart and professional person. You can tell a lot about a person from the clothes they wear. Would you want to be represented in court or have your finances dealt with by somebody wearing a tracksuit?! No because they are probably a chav or some other from of dunce, although there’s no reason why they couldn’t just be a normal banker or a lawyer in a tracksuit, it’s just a stereotype that these people want to avoid so dress correctly for the occasion: in a suit NOT in Lonsdale trackkies.
This is just going by examples given in the blog but I guess you can apply it to other professions/clothing. Potential for a bit of fun there.
People criticizing a comedian… no way!
Posted by Corey on June 20, 2010
It is a valid point, I work in an office where its the done thing to wear a tie (if you’re a man), until one day I decided I didn’t want to anymore, bloody hell, the stick I got, and still get. A couple of people have followed but theres one person in particular who is very limited in conversation skills, and every time he sees me without fail always says ”see you’ve still not got a tie Corey”.
WHAT DOES IT MATTER!?!? sorry, he’s a nice guy but its very frustrating and this is my place to let it out!!
Posted by A lot of Rach[a]els on June 20, 2010
Close one tonight Mark!
Smart clothes are so much easier for men than women, you just need to choose a suit, we have to find a dress, make sure someone is unlikely to be wearing similar, shoes, hair etc etc
I don’t know why smart is a certain way, so I won’t attempt to answer it but I personally think I look smarter in nice jeans or leggings then a dress which I feel incredibly uncomfortable in. Therefore, I don’t go near them. And the “smartest” I ever do is leggings and long t-shirt.
That’s why I’d be a bad famous person. I’m not sure skinny jeans would go down well on a red carpet
rachelx
Posted by Lukey on June 20, 2010
I guess a suit is simply smarter because it looks neater on, than jeans and a tshirt. And I never liked/understood ties, I presumed they were there to cover up the buttons, or make your out fit differnt, because all suits look the same otherwise.
Posted by Zoe Fell on June 20, 2010
Hells bells.
I’ll stop panicking now then.
I think things like uniforms are really important in the grown up world of work, particularly if you work in retail.
I work in Boots at the weekend and our wonderful uniform consists of regulation navy blue trousers (which do nobody any favours) and a 100% polyester white tunic with blue piping. What a treat. I think the uniform’s important as it helps the staff to stand out from the customers.
Although it doesn’t always work. There have been countless occasions when I’ve been at work and have been asked “Excuse me, do you work here?”. Every time I’ve been tempted to reply with, “No madam, I just borrowed the uniform and felt like chipping in with lining 70 cans of deodorant up on a shelf…” but I’m far too nice. And don’t really want to get sacked.
Does this happen to anyone else who works in retail, or is it just me?
Posted by Maddie on June 20, 2010
Watson you tease!! I can go to sleep now.
I quite like getting dressed up smart, although I have never worn a suit. I always quite enjoyed ‘formal Fridays’ at college. But then at my work work we have bright pink polo shirts which we all think ‘look smart’ too.
Hmmm, will ponder more tomorrow, goodnight.
Posted by Misha on June 20, 2010
I believe (nerdy moment) It’s to do with Class.
Fitted smart clothes are the sort of thing the aristocracy would wear, and aren’t well suited to moving about or manual labour, vice versa loose fitting clothes are. It’s like tanning, at one point having a tan was seen as a sign of being lower class, because you had to be outdoors working.
I suppose it’s also to do with availability, tracksuits are cheaper to make and so more easily available; therefore less smart.
As for jeans, they were originally designed for cow boys to stop them getting saddle sore, whereas the English genteman horseman would wear breeches.
At the end of the day it all comes down to class.
On an unrelated note, tomorrow is your first fathers day as a Dad. Excited? Having waited up i’m off to bed.
Posted by (Magnificent) Josh on June 20, 2010
Well that kinda failed
Posted by Gabi on June 20, 2010
Damn so close to first comment! I am glad you have not turned into a virtual pumpkin
Posted by (Magnificent) Josh on June 19, 2010
Minutes to spare.
Are you 2oing t2 change the number slowly 2ver time?
Posted by Lukey on June 19, 2010
wow cutting it a tad close tonight mark