Love and marriage
I’m at the start of a 312-mile car journey. My long-standing friend Rick is driving us. We’re heading down from Gretna Green, just over the Scottish border, to London. Like everyone else who’s ever been to Gretna, we were there for a wedding. We are now going home. We’re scheduled to arrive at about four or half past four in the morning. I have to be up at half past eight. When we were planning this, we both had a moment of thinking ‘I’m too old for this’. Then we both decided to push past that feeling and do it.
I was thinking it might be interesting to blog about why people get married. These days, not many people believe in God, so the idea of a divinely-ordained union lasting for life shouldn’t have as much power. Most of us realise that human nature isn’t so straightforward that you can say ‘forsaking all others, till death us do part’ and then just sit back and happily be together for the next 55 years without ever being tempted by anyone else. Probably most of us are aware that monogamy is a construct of a society that doesn’t have much in common with ours, and it doesn’t necessarily have much relevance to the world as it is today. Also, we all know lots and lots of marriages end in divorce. One in two, I think it is. Or one in three. Or, anyway, at least one couple has got divorced recently.
And yet people just keep on getting married and we all keep acting as if it’s necessary, or at least desirable. I’m no exception to this, I got married in 2006, and I’ve always been pleased I did. What’s it all about?
Obviously, part of it is a legal matter; if y0u’re married to someone you have the comfort of knowing they’d get all your stuff if you parked it suddenly. Or, if they were in hospital you could be next to them as a ‘next of kin’ without a lot of awkward explanations. And in general if you say ‘my wife…’ you will be taken a lot more seriously than if it was ‘my girlfriend…’ Old habits die hard and marriage is going to carry a certain weight for a long time to come yet.
But the real reason, maybe, is that the more it doesn’t quite make sense to pledge your future to just one person, the more romantic it becomes. Now that we’re all conscious that you can get away probably all your life without making your marriage official, there is a certain magic in deciding to do it all the same. In a world that’s increasingly obsessed with the short-term and the gimmicky, the grandeur of a gesture that will last all your life is quite intoxicating. People these days don’t normally live in the same house or stay in the same job for life, as they used to. Marriage is one of the only surviving chances to say ‘this is me – this is what I’m committed to’. Maybe the allure of that idea, no matter how flawed it is, will continue to carry it forward.
Or maybe marriage will, as people keep predicting, gradually die out. But I’m not sure. I reckon saying ‘this is my husband/wife’ will entice people for some time to come. Of course, some of the things that go with marriage – going to IKEA, having in -laws, and not being able to have casual flings with architects you meet in a hotel in Denmark – will continue to be a bit of a drag. But when it comes down to it, we’re all OK with a bit of nuisance in exchange for security. Being human is a lonely business, after all. Marriage makes it that bit less lonely. It’s three minutes to midnight. I’d better post this.
Posted by Knox on May 24, 2011
“You should only say I love you when it is completely obvious, and does not actually need to be said” – that’s the opening line to one of my favourite (spoken word) poems. I reckon marriage is the ultimate in this – you’re not doing it because you need to prove anything, or (necessarily) for the security it brings, it is simply because you can, and choose to, I reckon.
Posted by Rosie on June 3, 2010
(late, long comment again, never mind)
I’m marrying my girlfriend. At some point. We’ve been together for nearly 8 years and essentially engaged for nearly 8 years minus a couple of weeks (we’ve known each other much longer). We’ve now been living together for 2 years, plus we did nearly 3 years of long-distance while we were both at university. So, while I know there’s a huge amount life has not thrown at us yet (babies, career changes, big moves) I think we have given it a pretty good trial run so far!
Part of why I want to do it is a tiny bit political. I feel like, now I am legally allowed to marry her, I should. I would never say that other gay couples should get married just because they can, but being already disposed to do it, I think it’s the right thing to do. If that makes any sense at all…
Maybe I’m just a romantic at heart – it just seems like a lovely statement to be able to make. Every so often one of us will re-propose, just to check, and because ‘will you marry me’ and ‘yes I will marry you’ are such lovely things to hear. It doesn’t get old!
Plus, part of the reason we haven’t actually done it yet is we DO want, and are saving for, a bit of a fuss. Not a fairytale coaches and cake in the shape of the bride kind of fuss, but a proper party, with all the people we like. (And presents.) Apart from the legal thing, as a fairly secure couple in these semi-enlightened times, why would we bother if not for a really good knees-up?
Posted by Sue on May 29, 2010
@Rose Thank you.
25 years ago this October, in a registry office, no fuss, no big party. Dad had to stop me going on the bus; said we should at least go there in a taxi!
What little bit of money we had went on the honeymoon. Like I said before, selfish? Yes; but to us it wasn’t all about the grand gesture, or the proving of our love to all our friends and relatives. It wasn’t about the religious ceremony either as neither of us are religious. It was just a way to show people that we are together and unavailable to anyone else. Plus he had an alcove just the right size for my big screen (27 whole inches) TV. He still swears that’s the reason he married me. *chuckles*
Posted by Rose on May 29, 2010
I took a Women’s Studies class last year at uni, and early in the semester, the professor asked us: ‘Who here plans on getting married one day?’ Everyone except myself and one other student (who is a lesbian) put their hand up. How did all those young women know that they wanted to get married, when they didn’t have a man in mind??
I think if you love someone unequivocally, you shouldn’t need marriage to prove that. I like Anna’s comment that maybe some people in failed marriages were in love with the idea of marriage and not the person they married. The only reason I would get married is for legal reasons (ex. to gain citizenship to another country), otherwise I believe it is an antiquated ritual with heavy religious connotations. That being said, I would not stop friends or indeed anyone from getting married if I thought the couple deserved each other.
I like how diverse the comments on this blog are. And congrats Sue! 25 years is a LONG TIME!!
Posted by Steph on May 29, 2010
Well, aren’t we a sensible, slightly romantic, prudent bunch! I agree with most people; I would love to get married one day, not go over the top with a crazy expensive wedding and grow old securely with that person! Can’t wait…but I will.
Posted by Sue on May 29, 2010
I got married young, but it was for the marriage not for the wedding. We are still together, 25 years this year. Now a 25 year anniversary is a day worth celebrating, but we’ll probably celebrate it much like the wedding day, more for our benefit rather than a party for everyone else. Selfish? Probably.
Posted by Madeleine on May 29, 2010
What surprises me is that people still marry fairly young, i have a friend who’s brother and sister both got married before they were 21 (though they are fairly christian, and had been “saving themselves”. Which kind of explains the rush). She herself “plans” to be married by 25, which worries me, because she might rush into marrying some dickbag just because she’s about to turn 24. My uncle is 22, and he also just got engaged, to a girl he’s been with since he was 17. I don’t really agree with the concept of marriage, and i don’t “plan” to get married myself, but that didn’t stop me from sqealing along with everyone else at the proposal story, sighing when the bride to be described her dress ect. There’s something about the “forever” of marriage, that even though we know it’s rairly true, just captures peoples romantic side. Even if, like mine, it’s extremely well hidden.
Posted by Laurs on May 28, 2010
I can’t wait to get married, to be able to stand in front of friends and family and tell them all that the man I am marrying is the man I want to be with for the rest of my life. I’ve been dreaming about my wedding day since I was a little girl.
Just need to find someone who wants to marry me now!!
Posted by Anna on May 28, 2010
I’ve been married since October 2006, which still surprises me sometimes as I’ve never been a hearts and flowers, big displays of affection kind of person. I never expected to get married (certainly not when I was only 25), and always thought it was a bit pointless, really.
But then I met my now husband, and gradually realised that I did like the idea of marriage, it’s just I’d never met anyone worth marrying before. Maybe that’s why so many marriages fail- there’s lots of people out there who like the idea of being married, but don’t think enough about who it is they are marrying.
I like being married because it gives me a sense of security. It means that I’ve always got someone at my side, someone who will be there when things get tough. I love knowing that we’re going to get old together. I think being married makes you try harder at the relationship. There have been times where I’m sure we would have split up if we’d just been living together. Being married makes you think a bit harder about whether staying together is worth the effort.
Also, once I decided that I wanted children, I knew I wanted to be married first. I’m sure children of unmarried parents don’t care so much these days, but when I was growing up, knowing that my parents didn’t get married until after I was born always bothered me. Even now, I do wonder sometimes whether they would have stayed together if they hadn’t had me.
Oh, and the most compelling reason? I got to have a purple, medieval style wedding dress. When else would I find an excuse to have that?
Posted by Val on May 28, 2010
Well, me and mine jumped over the minute mop quite a long time ago and then, because we’d actually known each other for about twenty (or was it thirty) years before that and were crazy about each other, we got married. I’m glad we did. The minute mop is long gone, but we’re still together.
Posted by SamJJ on May 28, 2010
Just to the people who said they are put off marriage by the wedding part. It does not have to be all bells and whistles, tonnes of people and tonnes of money.
The day should just be about what the couple want and not the expectations of friends and family. Much to my mum’s chagrin we got hitched in the town hall and had a knees up in our local afterwards. It was our perfect day!
Sx
Posted by A lot of Rach[a]els on May 28, 2010
I enjoyed this blog. The idea of marriage has always intrigued me and I’m not sure it would be for me.
I agree with people in here who have already said they like the idea of marriage but not weddings and I think that’s where I’ll agree.
I think I’d like to be married one day but then I think if you truly love each other does marriage really matter?
The idea of spending a lot of money and fuss over a little ceremony which doesn’t take long (I don’t know how long they take, never been to one) and then wearing a dress in front of a bunch of people is way past my comfort levels. And I think that is stopping me from liking the idea of marriage.
I’m the least romantic person ever and I’ve never enjoyed being in relationships (well some aspects of relationships I don’t like: presents/someone giving compliments all the time. That sort of thing) maybe one day I’ll grow up and like the idea of romance and being married.
Posted by Laura on May 28, 2010
I can’t wait to get married; when people ring the house and ask for ‘Mrs Smith’ I don’t usually correct them (out of laziness, I should add, and even though I’m not sure I’ll change my name when we do eventually get married). We’ve been together for ten years, a third of my life, so I’m hoping I won’t have to wait too much longer. God, I sound pathetic.
I have less than zero interest in ever having children, so a marriage for us really will be about the commitment we have to each other rather than a ‘family unit’.
On a shallow note, I really like wedding rings.
Posted by Rachael on May 28, 2010
I agree with amycool, I don’t have a problem with marriage, just the wedding bit. People spend so much money on it and invite everyone they have ever met and I just think it is abit silly. If anyone asks me I would have to get them to arrange it and just tell me when to turn up.
Posted by Carey on May 28, 2010
I want to get married, have children. I don’t know why and I don’t care. I just know I do. My sister is 5 years older than me (she’s 27) and unmarried and not in a relationship. I have been with my boyfriend for over two years, our friends who are in similar situations are mostly engaged or recently married. I want to be starting on my first child by the time I am 27, I want to be married by then. I don’t know if I want to be with my boyfriend forever though. I don’t have a problem committing per se, just one with the idea of committing to him. There’s a long and complex list of reasons that may or may not be a load of crap. But if I leaver him, and it takes me longer than five years to find a new man (it took me until I was 20 to find this one and self pity aside I’m a plain Jane at best) then I’m screwed.
Posted by Misha on May 28, 2010
Once again I missed this, but I was jogging down the road from the village in a cardi, freezing cold and with terrible short term tinnitus at 3 minutes to midnight last night.
I personally quite like the idea of marriage, in the same way I quite like the idea of having a baby and growing old. I suppose i’m just an idealist.
Posted by Anji on May 28, 2010
I’ve been with my bofriend for 8 years, we now own a home together, I make him go to ikea, he makes me watch football on telly. He listens to my day, I do the same in return. We’ve had some wonderful times together and some bloody awful times. We also have a puppy.
We have spoken about marraige, like Linzy I will marry him because I love him and want to be together forever. He just has to do the asking! He knows this.
Family keep asking when, and we always get the ‘you’ll be next comment’. We will when it’s right. We’re comitted to each other in so many ways already.
I too love Katie’s saying – that’s a fantastic way of looking at it.
I hope in the course of these next
ten years I’ll be able to say my man is now my hubby and that we had a wonderful day with family and close friends and that we won’t be paying it off for the next ten years after! Who knows!
Posted by amycool on May 28, 2010
My opinion of marriage seems to change on a weekly basis. I’ve been with my boyfriend for over 8 years and we both know that we want to spend the rest of our lives together. Sometimes I think, “Well then what’s the point in getting married, other than for legal reasons?” but on other days I like the idea of declaring it. I think the whole wedding thing puts me off. Being surrounded by people looking at me is not my idea of fun but because of tradition I think we would offend quite a few people if we just grabbed a few witnesses and did it in private. On the plus side, I get to be rid of this awful name, but at the same time I feel it’s rather anti-feminist to take my boyfriend’s name. We quite like the idea of making up a new one but the paperwork puts us off.
Basically, we’re too lazy to get married.
I would do it this afternoon if we could just walk in and sign a piece of paper but I’m not suggesting that should happen for obvious reasons.
I can’t understand why anyone would spend thousands of pounds on one day. If you have that much money to waste, give it to someone who needs it, and if you haven’t got money to waste, why on earth are you spending £2500 on a dress that you’ll wear once?!! From the many wedding based TV shows that I have watched (yes, I know, I’m a hyprocrite, wasting time whilst complaining about wasting money) it would appear that the more lavish the wedding, the quicker the divorce. You see brides-to-be crying over the fact that their boyfriend has sent out homemade invites and threatening not to marry them because he didn’t order enough cars. I don’t think those people should be allowed to get married. I think we need a new tradition where everything needed for the wedding is made by friends and family and where the people getting married have to do something thoughtful for each other every day during the month leading up to the wedding.
And now I’ve put my incoherent ramblings on a screen, I shall inflict them on the populace…
Posted by Nathaniel Tapley on May 28, 2010
I found an interesting side effect of getting married was that I suddenly learned how to complain about things.
I’ve always been crippling rubbish at confrontations, and don’t want to appear ungrateful for any service (no matter how shoddy) any business provides. Before I was married I just silently swallowed the everyday frustrations of rude service staff, things not being as-advertised and shoddy goods, pushing them way down inside where they, no doubt, grow and fester, and will emerge some day as a beautiful stomach tumour.
However, being able to preface any complaint with ‘My wife…’ has enabled me to return food, take back things that break after a few seconds’ use, and dispute incorrect bills. Rather than sounding like a whinger, saying “My wife feels this is unacceptable” makes you sound gallant, official, it lends the whole sordid affair a sheen of authority and a chivalric note.
I now know how Lancelot must have felt when he had to ring room service to let them know that the film channels weren’t working…
Posted by Iona on May 28, 2010
I was just reading a book which was slightly to do with evolution and we evolved monogamous relationships (with some infidelity) because it made sense. It allowed the women to have a protection and the men access to a female. Sorry for making it sound really unromantic and it was explained better in the book I read.
Personally I don’t have an opinion on marriage yet, I’ll wait til I’ve had a serious relationship to comment on it cos I really don’t know what I’m talking about!
Posted by katelils on May 28, 2010
I’m not really a big fan of marriage. Not that it isn’t for everyone – I do know couples that are very happily married and have been for many years, but for me it seems a bit of an odd thing to do.
I’m from a big family full of divorces, so I’ve seen how easily a marriage can fall apart and how quickly you can get divorced. It’s a bit like buying a house!
For myself, I wonder how could I stand up in front of all my friends and family and declare without doubt that I will love just this one person for the rest of my life and that no matter what happens I’ll stay with them. I don’t even know what’s going on in my life next month let alone in 10, 20, 50 years. I’m only 29, so the rest of my life is a pretty long time.
If I could change the vows to ‘I promise to love, honour and protect, for the forseeable future’ or ‘I’ll give it everything I’ve got’ then maybe I’d change my mind. I just think as they are, whilst romantic, it’s a bit unrealistic. After all, a lot also depends on the other person, so whilst you may be devoted, what’s to say it won’t break down anyway through no fault of your own?
Having said all that, I don’t think there is anything wrong with people deciding that they want to try and spend the rest of their lives together. I hope to do that one day too, but it’s that moment of deciding that for me that is the most important, not the pomp and ceremony of weddings or legally binding yourself to someone (which apart from the possible tax breaks, I don’t really see the relevance of).
Just my 2p’s worth.
Posted by Joelle Stanton on May 28, 2010
I feel like I should read the blog everyday along with you writing it daily. I think I should wait until next Thursday though to read them again due to my exams. I think this is a wise decision.
I shall be stalking your blogs again once the majority of them are over! (:
Posted by Katy on May 28, 2010
I just wrote a whole reply and somehow managed to delete it.
To sum up I was saying that my parents separated when I was 8 (they still arent divorced 20 years later) so I thought I wouldnt be a big fan of marriage. But I am, and its become a focal point for me for some reason. Im turning 30 next year and feel a bit of a failure about the fact that I wont be married.
Posted by Phill on May 28, 2010
“Probably most of us are aware that monogamy is a construct of a society that doesn’t have much in common with ours”
Is monogamy the right word there? Most of my friends who aren’t married tend to practice ‘serial monogamy’. You just have to look at the tabloids and gossip magazines to see how people react when someone is caught cheating.
Maybe it’s just a basic human instinct, to be in a monogamous relationship. Either way I think its enduring popularity owes more to human nature than people clinging to the vestiges of a past which has little in common with today.
Posted by Linzy on May 28, 2010
I’m engaged to be married. I don’t want an especially fancy, fairy tale wedding because I don’t see the need as marriage is a declaration of my love and commitment to my other half and to be honest, I could do without all the fuss, effort and debt. In fact, I’ve already bought my wedding dress, which was a bargain at £75 and I know the chapel where I want to get married won’t cost me a small fortune either.
Like I say, I’m getting married because I love him and can’t imagine life without him (*passes around the sick bucket*). We’ve been together four years now, with three of them while I was away at university so we know we’re stable, unlike people who get engaged after only a few months, though that type of thing seemed to work well after the war…
Anyway, I’m not sure where I’m going with this so I’ll stop waffling and leave for work.
Posted by Alex on May 28, 2010
There is another Alex in the comments of this blog. I have to be honest, I was confused. I am now pretty sure that it isn’t me.
Posted by Dawn on May 28, 2010
My Mum and Dad were aged 17 and 19 when they got married.
53 years later they are still together!
However, out of their 5 children, 3 of us have broken marriages.
I, personally think Marriage is dying out and more people are living together. It is SO easy to get married but VERY difficult to get divorced.
Why not just change your name so your children have the same name as both of you?
Sorry but that is my very cynical view
Posted by LisaD on May 28, 2010
I was raised a Quaker and in that community marriage is not just about the two people involved. Relationships, particularly family relationships are part of the larger community as as such the community is responsible for them. When a Quaker couple gets married their marriage is referred to as being “under the care of” their meeting for worship. I always liked the sound of that.
I’m not in any hurry to walk down the aisle myself, but I’m actively involved in the gay marriage movement (It’s legal in the region of the country I live in but not the country itself, what a fucking mess) so a lot of my day is spent having conversations with people about why folks get married, both generally and specifically. Last week I was making “support gay marriage” type phone calls and one of the ladies I talked to said she got married cause she liked the challenge of it. She pointed out that people make such a fuss over bungee jumping and sky-diving but the odds of surviving most extreme sports is actually significantly higher than the odds of staying with one person for life. So essentially she was in it for “the thrill of finding a way to share a bathroom with someone without killing that him.”
Posted by SamJJ on May 28, 2010
I’m a big fan of marriage myself. I wasn’t when I was younger. My folks divorced when I was 11. Not being religious I saw marriage as just a bit of paper that didn’t count for much and vowed that I would never get married. When I met my husband that changed. I couldn’t wait to marry him.
It’s hard to explain but it seemed the perfect expression of our love and commitment to each other. I love knowing that I’m going to grow old with him and that we may go through some shit but that we’ll always have each other. I know how that sounds. Pass the bucket.
I think one of the downfalls of marriage is that it has become all about the wedding. People seem so transfixed on that one glamorous fairytale day and don’t necessarily think about the reality of being with one person for the rest of their lives. Also £20k of debt for a big white dress and a party is no way to start married life.
I also think that celebrities and their quickie divorces set a really bad example. If you’re getting married thinking if it doesn’t work out I can get a divorce you probably should’t be getting married in the first place.
Sx
Posted by Natalie-Helen on May 28, 2010
Lord you had me worried! Especially as there was no drafted title up either.
Don’t need the extra stress Watson what with the exam tomorrow too ^_^
I like the idea of being married. I don’t think it’s the “wedding” part more the being with one other person bit. The long term rather than the party.
Not sure why. Perhaps it’s about the fact of proving that you can do that for a length of time. I hope I marry once and stay together to the end but it might not happen like that and I’ll try not to beat myself up.
And being part of a unit, a family like I’ve been lucky enough to have. My own home and traditions and rules and the little in jokes that only happen in families.
Also legally you’re in a stronger position being a married couple than not, even if you’ve been together for years. There’s no common law marriage in the UK you know.
Break ups of families are so stressful, whether married or not, so maybe it doesn’t really matter.
All I know is that fundamentally I want to be married and have children. Maybe it’s only a social construct but it’s one that I don’t mind.
^_^
Posted by SirChrisOfBumpstead on May 28, 2010
“you’re a bit shit, but that’s alright, let’s tell everyone we’re going to be together forever”
I love that quote.
I always think of it as “you’re my kind of shit person; I think we suit each other well”. They never seem to pick up on the sentiment though… And I’m usually wrong.
About 8 replies got written in the time it took to do my mini essay reply. Now I have a social life back again I may keep a better eye on this blog!
Posted by SirChrisOfBumpstead on May 28, 2010
Cutting it a bit fine there! Does the early hours of the next day count if there’s an emergency?
This blog seems to be somehow topical for me; I’ve had two weeks of sort of break up with a girl I was kind of with, a bit ‘over before it began’ but there were other complexities but they get a bit too personal for a public blog, let’s just agree it was stressful. And generally badly dealt with and didn’t really favour anybody involved. You can only get away with this sort of thing being my age but being my age it’s been exam week that this should all land in. Bad couple of weeks.
It’s good to see there is still some romance left out there. I particularly like the IKEA reference, kinda made me think about the way some people regard marriage as something that’s easily made, works well for a bit and then gets chucked when it’s not needed. Throw-away society. Maybe I’m just cynical, or maybe just too damn young. I remember you writing about the word “Hubby” a couple of months ago, same principal. I’m by no means religious but marriage is something that I do take seriously.
I realised the other day that my parents got married when they were 10 years older than I am now. Scary thought. 10 years isn’t a long time. I feel I may need to make some self improvements between now and then…
Posted by lisa brunders on May 28, 2010
I knew it wasn’t just me tonight by the twitter comments! That was close!
I’m not against marriage, but I’ve never fancied it for myself.
Got to go watching you on You Have Been Watching on 4+1.
Posted by Idris on May 28, 2010
What I’m 8th! You people work fast
Posted by Idris on May 28, 2010
I just wanted to comment to be the second person that commented. Not that it’s special or anything but I realized usually the first two comments are read and the rest are usually insignificant. Not degrading those who comment, but just from an almost marketing point of view.
Unless by the time I post this I won’t be second and this would have been pointless
Posted by Katie on May 28, 2010
You need to stop leaving doing this, Mark. I’m 17 – that’s far too young for a heart attack.
I always quite liked the idea of getting married (not just because I’m female), because it meant that someone actually liked you enough to put out a big spread and say “you’re a bit shit, but that’s alright, let’s tell everyone we’re going to be together forever”. Which I think is nice. I’m such a romantic. Ahem.
Posted by Zoe Fell on May 28, 2010
*Breathes out*
Phew, you had me and Katie panicking a lot there. A LOT. We seriously thought that you weren’t going to make it. Btu we shouldn’t have doubted you. So… sorry.
Posted by @BexQuillerdrive on May 28, 2010
I was biting my nails as i watched the clock and refreshed the blog that was v v v close, but record intact I’ll read it now.
Posted by Terry on May 28, 2010
I spent a while today thinking about marriage because I suddenly realised how weird it was to see my 24 year old friend at work talking to a mid-40′s guy about their wives. Made me think I should find someone and settle down but I like my singledom to much!
Posted by Maddie on May 28, 2010
Few!
Posted by Kathryn on May 27, 2010
Good to see the blog up, and you were fantastic on You Have Been Watching tonight. I have an exam in the morning but it was worth staying up! Have a good weekend.
Posted by Alex on May 27, 2010
Hi Mark, can you talk about your radio show, and if you’re doing a series three?