Gay life and football
Thanks to everyone who contributed to yesterday’s open discussion on camp humour on TV. Among the Comments was a fascinating one from LisaD (who will soon be one of your Emergency Bloggers, when I go away on Friday). She pointed out that far from misrepresenting the gay community, flamboyant gays are the ones who have been standard-bearers for equality, and they’ve been the ones to drag (no pun) society towards some sort of acceptance of different sexualities. She also argued that if I don’t like a camp joke, it’s because it’s not for me, any more than Loose Women is aimed at me (that’s my parallel, not hers). And she went on to say that people simply talk about their lives and identities in stand-up, so you can hardly complain that, say, Alan Carr harps on about being gay a lot. Others pointed out that aggressively straight male comics tend to be equally, if not more, one-track, and nobody has a problem with THAT.
I agree with most of this, and in particular I was really interested in the idea that camp jokes have served as a kind of code to unite and strengthen members of an often oppressed minority (I’m paraphrasing as I don’t have her comment in front of me). I’d never really thought about it like that.
I also concede, as someone pointed out, that becoming a big TV star is bound to reduce a performer to the barest, most simplified version of his schtick – so someone like me becomes a nervous geek who does 45 seconds of garbled observations on Mock The Week, Jimmy Carr becomes a heartless one-liner merchant, and Alan Carr becomes an over-the-top queen. Television has a way of stripping away the nuances of the act you’ve built up. It’s not necessarily fair to judge someone by what’s left.
All I WOULD say is that the best comedians don’t just talk about the immediate circumstances of their lives – they manage to be funny outside that context. Dara O’Briain came up as an example, but if he were challenged to never mention his Irishness again, he’d remain one of the best comedians there is. Eddie Izzard became one of the world’s top comics as a transvestite who virtually never mentioned transvestitism, instead turning his massive intelligence to the rest of the universe. Maybe it’s not really camp that I dislike, but just any form of comedy which seems to look inward one hundred percent of the time, rather than looking out at the world. Maybe I just don’t like narcissism. Or maybe, as I said yesterday, it’s just that I don’t like people doing tedious, mannered things, and that’s a problem with the man from Pineapple Dance Studios rather than with anyone else who might be like him.
Phew.
Well, we’ll talk about something else, shall we?
The first person to leave a Comment yesterday did so purely to claim the right of dictating a new subject. This is perfectly acceptable under the rules, but his chosen topic – the joys of lower league football – is something I’ve already dealt with once or twice, and something which is not of huge interest to everyone here. However. Here’s a little story about me and my brother.
My brother (Paul) and I have supported what you’d call a lower league football team – though they’ve got slightly, slightly better – all our lives. As I’ve said before, it’s the kind of support which leaves you physically weak before and during a big game, and emotionally seriously affected by results, however stupid you know it is. In our teenage years we once bought a mint chocolate bar (a little-seen German brand called Ritter Sport Pfefferminz) on a match day, and our team won 2-0 unexpectedly. From then on we had to eat one of these bars before every game. Unfortunately you can only get Ritter Sport in a handful of shops, so every Saturday for some years we would make a trip to a corner shop a good distance away. If we were away from Bristol the task would be even more tricky and we’d have to go into newsagents and endure their baffled looks as we spelt out: ’Ritter Sport Pfefferminz. PFEFFERMINZ. It’s German.’
One day, our team was thrashed 7-1, and the superstition was officially scrapped. But even now, before a big game, my brother will lighten the tension by texting: ’right, I’ve got a Pfefferminz’ or something of the kind. A type of minty chocolate divided into squares has taken on a significance for the two of us which its manufacturers could never have foreseen. And really, it’s nothing to do with football (we were never quite weird enough to imagine our players would genuinely be lifted by the knowledge we’d eaten a minty snack two hours earlier). It’s to do with us.
I think I’m saying all this to communicate that loving football is often less about obsessing over a stupid game – though I do obsess over it – and more about the people you do it with, the way it forms funny little traditions. Advertisers try to exploit this by showing groups of lads on the sofa with beers and crisps no girls anywhere. But just as many football fans – men and women – are odd, nerdy people with long memories and remarkable attention to detail, who find lifelong common ground in something whose importance to them is almost impossible to rationalise.
I suppose it’s crass to segue from this sentiment into an advert, but as you might know, it is kind of topical: some years on, my brother is now a football coach – he created a team in Micronesia, in the Pacific, living out his dreams, and is now the youngest international manager in the world and I’m enormously proud. To raise money for him to take his team to their first ever away match (most of them have never left the island), and to raise awareness of his feat, I am putting on a show called Mark Watson’s Football Shambles on May 23, in London. It will be a bit like this blog and the 24 hour shows: me hosting, flailing around, trying to keep things going, playing games and starting competitions, interacting a surprising amount with the audience. Then there will be some special comedic guests. And my bro will be there, of course – probably your only chance to see us share a stage. And although there’ll be an overarching footbally theme, as there was with this blog, it will, once again, really just be about being alive.
This little link (below) will give you a bit more information. It would be ace to have some of you there. And because the readership of this blog is fairly small-ish, saying ‘some of you’ does actually mean something. I.e. I know your names. And will look out for you.
Tomorrow I’ll explain my mission to Senegal and how you can get slightly involved in THAT. Gosh, it never stops, does it!
http://tinyurl.com/3amdzpl
Posted by Knox on May 21, 2011
@Ben Draper – I have to disagree with your comments about ‘ethnic’ comedians doing comedy about their background, and that being especially insulting if they’re ‘not from there’ (paraphrasing). I was born in St Thomas’ hospital, and have lived all my life (well, most of it) in the UK, but I’d be pretty put out if someone told me I wasn’t Nigerian/African. I love that I can show my mum (Nigerian born and bred) Gina Yashere videos and she gets them and laughs at them in a way she doesn’t/can’t with other comedians who I may find more hilarious. I agree that comedians shouldn’t be one trick ponies, going on and on about one aspect of their personality. At the same time, the reason that comedians from a particular culture may go on about that is that it’s something that people can relate to, albeit not everyone.
Posted by Knox on May 21, 2011
Ooh – this has reminded me I took a heap of photos at the football shambles and never did anything with them (*adds to ‘to do’ list)
Posted by knox on May 20, 2010
just got tickets (i lied last time i saw you – i am a stalker really).
my best friend’s over from athens, and specifically wanted to see a show with you in (i think i may possibly have mentioned you a few times…).
does anyone know if it’s ok to take pictures at this venue?
Posted by Kate W on May 14, 2010
Gutted to miss this, but I’ll be in Turkey; dammit. Love your chocolatey pepperminty football ritual. As a non sports fan, it reminds me of lots of odd little sibling things (like the mention of pork chops) that only my sister and I would get.
Posted by SirChrisOfBumpstead on May 13, 2010
Mark, you make me proud to be human sometimes. I find it interesting how this particular installment has got such a positive reaction. It’s a shame there’s only 9 years and 10 months or so worth of blog to come.
It it wasn’t exam weeks right then I’d be at the gig. Hope it all goes well.
Posted by glamlovinkitty on May 13, 2010
You can get ritter sport in waitrose. I’ve never tried one, as generally anything containing any allusion to the word ‘sport’ is a big giant turn off.
Posted by @BexQuillerdrive on May 13, 2010
The mint Ritter sports bars are great. I always associate them implicitly with trains as i have only ever seen them sold in Train station news kiosks.
I’d love to be able to go to the “Shambles” gig( have to use the quotes or it looks like a back to the future criticism ) but I’ve got to just stop spending so I’m OK for Edinburgh which i am so excited about i could burst!! Its my first time although i can only afford 3 days, but I’ll make them count
Posted by Laura on May 13, 2010
My dad had a thing about ‘lucky port’ for a couple of seasons. It came to an abrupt end when he got shit-faced on the stuff and we got knocked out of the FA Cup by Arsenal. He sobbed all over our roast lamb whilst carving it and hasn’t touched the stuff since (port, not lamb). When I say ‘we’, I mean Spurs, hence all the sobbing.
I am convincing my better half to come to the football shambles. I would have booked tickets already but was afraid of sitting in the front row… I shall book them now, I think.
Posted by helen (@iamanicelady) on May 13, 2010
me and my sister (rachel/pandora) eat chocolate buttons at the rugby whenever our team scores (though not when they get awarded a penalty try because they didn’t really earn it). not so much a superstition but a confectionery/sporting story nonethless…
Posted by rvdk on May 13, 2010
I realise the title was referring to two halves of the blog, and not describing the actual subject, but when I saw it, I thought of John Amaechi having heard him recently talking about gay life and football.
I don’t really have heroes, but he’d more than likely top my list if I did. He wasn’t a footballer himself, but played basketball in the NBA. If all you knew about him was that he was dark skinned you wouldn’t think twice about it. He was in a demographic of one though when you add in that he was a fat unathletic kid, highly intelligent, and from a single parent family in Manchester, suffering the virtual severing of one of his hands at one point. On his side, he did have incredible drive to reach his goal, and is 6’10″.
There’s an interview included in his blog post here:
http://amaechiperformance.blogspot.com/2010/02/ten-word-answers.html
Posted by Idris on May 12, 2010
This blog made me laugh. Not out loud becuase my mum was in the room and would have asked a lot of questions. Anyway I liked how you pointed out how football was always marketed at the “Lads on sofa drinking beer” people. I’m a complete nerd and find that it’s simple to discuss football with anyone who simply follows it. This stereotype of “Lads on sofa drinking beer” people needs to be drowned out. I prefer continental football more (Spanish), but I’ve always appreciated this British culture of the lower leagues – superstitions included.
Posted by Irwin on May 12, 2010
It’s the little things like that that make football, and specifically football fandom, pretty much the best thing in the world.
Although as a Swindon fan anyday that either City or Rovers get stuffed is a good day…
Posted by LisaD on May 12, 2010
For one glorious summer in 1986 the Red Sox played baseball like God was on their side (as opposed to an evil curse) and they were actually in the post season in the fall. This meant I had to wear my “lucky” red socks (I never claimed baseball made a person subtle) every day for the two weeks of the pennant race and the world series. Then the ball went through Buckner’s legs at the end of game six and game seven was just…….we don’t really talk about it round here. Point is, although the curse continued to plague the Sox, I was cured of clothing related superstitions. Took going through a world of pain, several days of crying, and getting into a couple of fights because Buckner was my favorite and everyone was saying pretty mean things about him, but I never referred to an article of clothing as “lucky” again. Oh dear, it’s possible I’ve gotten a bit superstitious about that…
Posted by Ally on May 12, 2010
That’s a brilliant story about eating the chocolate bar before every game
My friends and I had a similar tradition in high school where we would have to eat a packet of Mentos before all our school sport matches. Not that we ever won. But we’d all feel out of sorts if we hadn’t been able to have one of those sugary mint treats!
Posted by Simon on May 12, 2010
Tickets BOOKED! Row C. Happy with that.
Even though I’m not particularly interested in football, I really love the idea of what Paul is doing. It’ll be fantastic to share an evening with the pair of you. And several hundred others, obviously.
Posted by Maddie on May 12, 2010
This made me smile. Cheers Mark.
Posted by Katy on May 12, 2010
I read the title and thought it was going to be about Justin Fashanu.
I shall be purchasing tickets for the gig shortly as my friend didnt want to sit front row so had to wait for that to be full
Posted by Someone on May 12, 2010
Guess what guess what guess what
(…Aghhhhh, must calm down and revise, but yay!)
I just bought tickets to the gig and am now very excited.
I’ve roped my brother along and we’re in front row aaghhh.
Awesome. And day after my last ever uni exam.. Agghh.
Also he says we must pin you down and get your autograph. Sorry ’bout that :].
Posted by Kathryn on May 12, 2010
I would love to be at the show. Somehow I seem to know a lot about football without ever really trying, mostly due to my brother being addicted to sky sports. Once you’ve seen live billiards there’s no going back.
However, as usual I’m stuck on the wrong island. Damn.
Posted by Rachael on May 12, 2010
On the subject of snacks that are only sold in a handful of shops, I love spicy tomato flavour Snaps, they are the best crisps ever. I will keep an eye out for Ritter Sports.
Posted by Aislinn on May 12, 2010
I had a friend at primary school who always bought us Ritter Sports, for no apparant reason. I think she just loved chocolate.
Shall be at the football-themed show on the 23rd! (If I can find somebody to drag along. Damn friends, being at Uni, and sister, not having an interest in comedy.)
Posted by Ben Draper on May 12, 2010
What really gets me is when ethnic comedians do too many jokes about being ethnic, especially when ALL the jokes they do are about being ethnic. The two worst people for this are Gina Yashire (I can’t spell) and Lenny Henry. A friend of mine saw Henry at a comedy gala thing just before christmas and he said that Lenny opened his bit with “Do we have any black people in the audience tonight?” and then did a quarter of an hour worth of jokes about being black which was very alienating if you aren’t black and probably very claustrophobic if you are. People don’t look in the mirror every morning and think “Oh, I am white” or “I am black” or “I am gay”, it’s just life to them. They probably think “My hair is shit and I am older than I was yesterday and my house has depreciated by £45 whilst I’ve been asleep” or something and I don’t think people want reminding of the demographic they are in on a daily basis. In my walk of life I very rarely see any prejudice about these sorts of things and the little that is left is looked down upon by so many that it will eventually fizzle out if people just shut up about it.
I’m not having a go at them for being part of a minority and making jokes about it. I like Shappi Korsandi for example because, although she makes “I’m Iranian” jokes, they are stories about her and her life and experiences, just like most other comedians tell, rather than her getting away with jokes about her race because she belongs to it like Lenny, Gina and Stepen K. Amos do.
As research i typed Gina Yashire into youtube and the first video I found was her Live At The Apollo and it featured her walking around the stage under the guise of an air hostess on Nigeria Airlines miming the act of dragging a buffalo around the plane shouting “take a piece of the buffalo”. a) She has no more right to take the piss out of Nigeria than me, she said earlier on in the video that she was born in Bethnal Green and she has a strong london accent. and b) It’s tasteless. They are millions of peoples lives she is belittling, insulting or patronizing and it’s okay because her mother used to be one of these people? Frankie Boyle is supposed to be offensive but I can’t think of a joke he does where he exploits such a number of people so fundamentally.
It might just be my white middle class guilt kicking in that makes me uncomfortable with these sorts of jokes but I don’t like it.
I’m not too fussed about camp comedians really because they don’t make jokes about being camp, it’s just an aspect of their delivery, it makes them funnier. Innuendo doesn’t really work when you sound like Steve Wright.
What’s more, camp comedy doesn’t really hurt anyone who is particularly vulnerable. Most men consider an ability to exercise their sexuality to be a great luxury and a lot of gay people are well off and, as LisaD said, the success of the camp comedians provides a sign post that being or acting gay is acceptable or even incorrigible. What does race comedy do? Say it’s okay to be black? Even if it did, we all know that already.
Posted by Misha on May 12, 2010
That’s why people like you Mark I think, because your stand up is a little bit more broad ranging than just I’m a bloke and this is stuff about being a bloke.
Can’t wait for the 23rd, I’m there with Emmy as our ahhh first date. Front and centre. Exciting!
Posted by Megan on May 12, 2010
The corn flake Ritter Sports are shockingly good.
As for the camp stuff, I find that Graham Norton is much toned down (though still flamboyant) on Just a Minute and I enjoy him much more. Didn’t really make the connection as to why until I read yesterday’s blog; he has to be more thoughtful/clever and can’t rely on the supercamp Dorothy-finding and, frankly, less funny persona as much.
That having been said, I do find camp stuff quite funny sometimes. Mostly older stuff, though, when camp was more definitely code for gay when being gay wasn’t so okay. That might be anthropological/historical interest more than anything, though.
Posted by Kate B on May 12, 2010
I really enjoyed this blog. Despite not being a particular football fan it’s nice to hear a football realated story that I can actually understand and that appeared to be pretty heart-felt. I’ve had a pretty shit day today and this has really cheered me up. Thank you!
Posted by Lynsey on May 12, 2010
Mmmm…Ritter Sports! I used to love those. I know you can still get them in Aldi, although I haven’t seen them in there for a bit.
Posted by Corey on May 12, 2010
Football Shambles related business. I’m currently In the process of trying to get something for your brother to auction which invloves John Lukic and Ketchup!!
Posted by Anji on May 12, 2010
Bovril and football. It’s not right as a drink anywhere else. Not sure it’s ever helped villa win but is stops me freezing!
I just wanted to post really as didn’t yesterday! And I love the way that first comment is a challenge in itself now!!
Posted by lisa brunders on May 12, 2010
I’m very much enjoying everything that’s going on at the moment. I shall really miss you, but I’m also looking forward to the Emergency Bloggers.
Posted by Olga on May 12, 2010
that’s meant to say “life” not like btw
Posted by Olga on May 12, 2010
Now that was really nice of you Adam! Therefore I think you should write a wee paragraph about how people are actually pretty decent? I am still at high school so the type of people I come acress are usually bitchy, stressed, child-like and (most of the time) drunk people. A lot of them still nice, you get a lot of bitchyness. High school has made me lose faith in humanity to be honest. But this blog, as well as lots of random friends I added on facebook, have kind of restored my faith in humanity. People here are nice and trying to do something together, which almost seems like a miracle to me to be honest! It’s pretty amazing considering what I’ve seen and what I’m used to. And as to facebook, well I’ve added a lot of random people, for farmville (a virtual farm if you don’t know) and I was surprised as to how everyone helps eachother, sending gifts, fertilizing eachother’s crops. I know this must sound really lame to someone who doesn’t play it, but I found it really amazing, and it makes me feel better about like in a way. Like there’s hope that not every person I come across is a twat.
So yeh, you could mention that Mark
And thanks Adam!
Posted by Emmy on May 12, 2010
I love Ritter Sports! Especially the Knuisperflakes kind. Or something like that, I don’t speak German. The kind with cornflakes in.
As for the show on the 23rd, I will be there. Front and centre. With, ahem, someone else.
As you were.
Posted by fuzzy_ducky (Laura) on May 12, 2010
huzzah tis mine
haha
Posted by Adam on May 12, 2010
I insist Olga takes it. Olga, the floor is yours
Posted by Olga on May 12, 2010
damn… so close
Posted by Adam on May 12, 2010
I’ll let someone else be first eh?