Can I Help You? 3
Welcome to the third instalment of Can I Help You?, a ‘lifestyle feature’ of this blog in which, despite not having any qualifications or even much experience of most of the areas under discussion, I attempt to dispense Agony Aunt advice to anyone who’s written a Comment about their problems.
What follows is barely half of the ‘letters’ received last time. I’ll deal with all the others in a blog next week. Sorry for keeping you hanging on but I shouldn’t imagine anyone is taking this advice too seriously. In the meantime, keep your queries coming.
As ever, my answers are quite insubstantial and I’m appealing to anyone with an opinion to place it here as a Comment – the format is meant to be helpful group discussion rather than wisdom. Here we go…
SIMONE Dear Mr. Watson, I know nothing about politics/political parties in the UK. All the news about the general election baffles me. Can you help me understand?
I’m not sure if you are in Britain or not, but if so, the televised election debate on Thursday was a pretty good primer, and I’d recommend watching the other two, as well. You have to wade through a lot of empty politician-talk, but it’s still an improvement on our usual General Election procedure of everyone just voting for the same party that won last time.
But then, you might not be in the UK. You might be in Australia, for example. Here’s the briefest possible rundown of the parties:
LABOUR: the current Government. Historically left-wing, i.e. in favour of taxing the rich, supporting state-run medicine, education, etc. However, in order to get elected in the 90s, became much more like their rivals, the…
CONSERVATIVES. Often called Tories. Historically, right-wing and the party of rich/quite well-off/middle-class people. Which is a lot of people. Ran the country throughout the eighties and nineties, more and more unpopularly. As Labour have become more like them, they’ve become more like Labour. They are now slight favourites to take power again, but nobody quite knows what they’ll do if they get in. (Confusingly, this is the equivalent of the Aussie ‘Liberal’ Party.)
LIBERAL DEMOCRATS. The third biggest party, permanent underdogs. Normally try to keep a middle ground and/or offer policies which the bigger parties are slightly scared of. Often ignored, but this time, thanks to the TV debates, have a chance.
The actual way the votes are translated into members of Parliament, though, is another discussion again. Hope that helps a bit.
NICKY Hi there, following some staffing changes in work, I am spending quite a lot of time in the office on my own. Do you think I would be considered of unsound mind if I took a football into the office to talk to (a-la Wilson in Castaway) rather than talking to myself?
Maybe, but there’s nothing wrong with being of unsound mind. I’m always talking to objects. I congratulated a lasagne on how delicious it was, just the other day. Less gloriously I called my computer a treacherous c—t for refusing to go online.
BEN Hi mark. Quick one for you. How do you know when the time is right to have a little one (kid that is, not a euphemism)? I’m 27 and so is my girlfriend. Been together 7 years, love her to bits, and just bought a house 2 months ago. We both love kids but it’s just that daunting step where you worry about money and being a good dad.
I don’t think there is a ‘right time’ – you’ll always feel you’re not quite ready, both materially, and emotionally. I’m 30, we’ve been together nine years, bought a flat recently, same sort of situation as you, but none of this makes it any less daunting – indeed terrifying – when a tiny version of your own flesh and blood is screaming helplessly at you. This is the same for everyone, regardless of circumstances, I think. I would say that basically, it sounds like you have everything you really need; it won’t be any easier if you wait another five years, so, yeah, go for it. Your worries about being a good dad aren’t going to go away, but you might as well give it your best shot.
*STAR LETTER*
ELLIECAT I’m very old and have gone back to university. I’m nearing the end of my second year and the problem hasn’t got any better. The majority of the class are girls who have gone to university straight from school. From time to time, we have to split into groups and discuss one thing or another. Despite my smiling, trying to be pleasant and contributing to the discussion, these girls mostly act as if they can’t see me. I’ve pretty much stopped trying to say anything at all, as every comment is met by a silence in which the only sound is my self esteem plummeting ever closer to rock bottom. It’s a bit like that movie “Mean Girls” only with rather less attractive people. Should I reassure them oldness and fatness are not communicable diseases and that by being near me they will not develop a sudden liking for Alan Titchmarsh or be forced to wear elasticated trousers?
I don’t know how old ‘very old’ is, but in any case, this made me sad. It’s horrible to think of a pleasant, friendly being shunned by considerably younger people, having taken the bold and unnerving step of going back to university. I haven’t seen ‘Mean Girls’ but I have seen mean girls operating in real life and it’s not pretty to watch. I think the extra subtlety of feminine relationships, compared with the way men relate to each other, makes it a lot harder for a woman to settle among other women, too; there’s much more passive-aggression, much less small talk about football.
I’d like other blog readers to enter the discussion of how someone in this situation can settle without cheapening themselves to become popular, because if I knew how to talk to strangers, I probably wouldn’t have become a comedian (paradox as that may be). What I would say is that you mustn’t let your self-esteem be dependent on these people you barely know. Their reasons for not talking to you have nothing to do with your personality, everything to do with their own expectations and preconceptions. People struggling to establish their identity (which virtually all students are, to some degree) don’t find it easy to connect with older people. They have as many insecurities as you, probably more, and it’s just more effort to let it go rather try to bridge the gap. It has absolutely nothing to do with you.
And as for ‘fatness’, it’s irrelevant. Honestly. You’re older than them and I’ll bet you’re more attractive, anyway.
I hand this over to the general readership.
ANJI Who the hell designs hoods on coats?! Is it a giant? Coz when I put mine up it’s so damn huge I can’t see where I’m going, making it useless and results in me still getting soaked! I’m open to ideas, my dads was to wear a ‘woolly hat underneath’. I don’t buy this idea as useful, more just something to make me look daft!
I’ve had a look around to establish the culprit but so far nobody has come forward as the designer of hoods on coats. I love it when people get really angry about tiny things like this. You’ll have your revenge in the end, Anji.
MEGAN My question: How can I be more disciplined about writing? I find that the rest of my life has been impeding my drive/creativity lately and I have the attention span of a methed up butterfly. I’ve had several script/story ideas in mind for YEARS, but haven’t properly started writing them yet. How do I make myself scare myself into writing?
This question of motivation keeps coming up. I keep saying things like ‘you owe it to yourself’ and talking about potential and so on, but I’m starting to think I should be more direct. So, Megan, I have your email address because of you commenting on the blog. I’m going to send you the occasional email to bully you into working. You’ll soon wish you hadn’t raised this. Other people asking about how to get themselves working can expect the same treatment.
IONA Personally, I need advice on how to choose which university to go to as it has suddenly become important that as well as revising thoroughly for AS levels we need to decide where we want to go for university, ‘read around’ our subjects and generally prepare for life! Also advice on how to get into a good university (preferably Oxbridge) would be much appreciated.
I’d suggest visiting a few universities and getting a gut feeling for where you’d be happy. There’s not much difference between a lot of them; it all comes down to the people you meet and the opportunities you have to do whatever you’re most keen on doing. So visit some places and try and talk to people who are already there. And don’t panic about it. Most people have a good time, wherever they go.
As for how to get in. Exam results are obviously important. Beyond that, coming off well in an interview – but that’s a separate topic I’ll cover soon in another blog.
EMMA Welcome to my world… I lose things all the time. I will put something down and then go and do something and then go back to get the aforementioned something and… it is gone. I have lost parking tickets between the machine and the car, I have lost my driving licence in Ireland (luckily the kind taxi driver sent it to me), I have lost countless purses, I lost an entire bag of shopping between my hotel and LAX airport, then a day after lost my sunglasses… on a plane (we travelled overnight as well – why did I have them out anyway?). I am a mess. It is starting to cost money (like today I had to replace my ipod) and this just won’t do. Have you got any advice on how to change my ways?
This is also my world, Emma. I’m shit at remembering where I put things. I have lost almost as much stuff as you, in my time. I’m the person who leaves the passport in an airport toilet and they read out your name over the tannoy, and everyone wonders who the hell that idiot is. I’ve lost most clothes I’ve ever owned; countless important documents; all sorts of keys and keepsakes.
I have, gradually, got better, by the simple system of making sure I never take anything out of my pockets without saying – out loud – ‘OK, I’m putting this down here’. E.g. ‘Right, I’m putting my glasses down here’. ‘Now, this bag is going down here’. And so on. This seems to cement it in the memory somehow. Don’t be afraid to talk out loud. It’s better to seem mad (see above) than to be driven actually mad, by losing something crucial.
If anyone else has not-losing-things tips, they’d be very much appreciated by both me and Emma.
JOELLE Which is better to go to, Edinburgh Fringe or Melbourne International Comedy Festival?
Melbourne is wonderful fun. There’s less going on in general – not as much art/music/theatre/all the other stuff that makes Edinburgh so special. But it is more laid-back, sunnier, and the overall standard of shows tends to be higher because there’s less pressure on comics. Yes, I’d recommend Melbourne. But then, you do live in Australia if I’m not mistaken. So for you, Edinburgh would be more of an adventure. So…hmm. Melbourne, but both.
STEPH I’m losing my voice but I’m supposed to be helping a friend out by acting in their radio play on friday. How can I make it come back? Or at least pull it through the few hours I need it on Friday? I’ve taken the heavy strepsil usage before and it left me unnable to enunciate.
Sorry this is probably too late. But I swear by hot water with honey and lemon stirred in. It’s all that gets me through festivals. Stir in the honey, drip in the lemon juice. Drink it. Repeat lots of times. Make sure you have a wee before going on stage, if applicable.
SARAH Mark, this is more of a question about blogging. I have my own 10 year blog going (in year two. YIKES) and I’m finding it hard to find interesting things to write about. On more occasions than not it’s turned a list of things I’ve done that day. So I guess my question is how are you coping with writing every day? Your topics are always interesting and interactive so i’m pretty impressed.
That’s because I’ve only been doing it a couple of months. When I get to the two-year mark I’ll be really struggling.
My only tip is to do things that other people contribute to. Like this.
LAURS I’m seriously considering a move from the west midlands to London. Any advice, hints, tips, pros/cons about this decision? Asides from my friends, I don’t have anything else to keep me here if that makes a difference.
As I said to someone else thinking about moving to London: be prepared to find it weird at first. London isn’t the most welcoming place, or the easiest to settle. It is, though, probably worth the effort. If you know anyone there, I’d strongly recommend getting in touch with them and getting them to show you the ropes a bit. Remember also that it’s not far to go back up to the West Midlands while you’re settling in; it’s not like moving to the other side of the world. Yeah, I’d say go for it.
And that’s all we have time for, and by ‘time’ I don’t mean a TV slot, but… literally how much time I have in my life. As I said, I’ll come to the other ones, so if you have sent a question, it will be dealt with. Maybe not that well. But that’s Can I Help You? The internet’s best-loved amateur agony aunt column by me. See you next time.
Posted by Knox on May 10, 2011
Reading through this, I really want to know how things turned out for Ellie… hope things took a positive turn.
Posted by EmmaT on April 19, 2010
Thank you Mark and everyone for your advice. It is reassuring I am not the only one who suffers from this affliction.
I have managed to make it through last week without losing anything amazingly, which is something of a record for me. I have started to say out loud where I am putting things so maybe this is helping, I have even started to tell people I am with where I am putting things. Although I am not counting on them to mother me and make sure I have everything (my actual mother does a fantastic job of this already) it has helped on various occasions and has been the difference between being stranded in a car park and making it home without incident.
EllieCat, I went to uni at 19 and was never a part of that kind of group of girls, my friends were those that did not live on our campus and the mature students. It seemed that there was quite a wide gap even between those that took a year out and those that didn’t. I hope that it all works out for you. I have found that these girls just are confident in their groups but take them out of their comfort zone and they would be a bit lost.
Posted by Issey on April 18, 2010
Hey Mark, I can never get motivated either. I can’t find anything that will make me get down to do work and just get on with it. I end up putting off doing work until pretty much the day before and then rush it as a result. What can I do??
Posted by Zoe Fell on April 18, 2010
*Sigh*
Lovely Mark, I have a question for you. A question with a pretty long preface.
This year, I turned 19. I have never been kissed. It sounds like something from a film. Hold on…
Joking aside (Yes, there is a film called Never Been Kissed. Trust me – it’s rubbish. Don’t waste an hour or so of your lives watching it.), it’s an odd thing. Young people in the press get such a hard time for being promiscuous – don’t get me wrong, I’ve got friends who go out alone to find someone to go home with, I’ve just never been that way inclined.
I’ve never been one to let myself go at parties – I’m often too busy worrying about everyone else to have fun. Sometimes I wish that I was the complete opposite but then other times, I’m glad to wake up with the same amount of shoes I left the house with, an unbroken pair of glasses and a clear head.
Perhaps it’s a confidence thing, perhaps I’m just a bit strange.
So I suppose what I want to know is…is this unusual? How old were you when you had your first romantic entanglement? And being that little bit older and a lot wiser than me, have I got anything to fret over? Will things eventually just happen? And my whole issue with partying. Do I need to just stop worrying so much and enjoy myself?
Any advice from either you or the other Blog readers would be greatly appreciated.
Big Hugs.
Zoe.
xoxoxoxo
Posted by elin on April 18, 2010
Emma and Mark
I too share this problem… I’m very good at forgetting everything, and I’m just grateful that I don’t need glasses or medication or anything else important…
But, my solution to not losing things is my brains automatic setting, and my backpack. I never let it out of sight, it feels wrong going outdoors without it. And everything important is always kept in it, it sits on the armrest of my chair when I’m inside, so that it’s as easy to pop things into it as to put them on the (very overcrowded) desk…
That, and a hook for my keys just inside the door. But then I need my keys to go to the kitchen… otherwise they would probably always be in the backpack… But this too gets worked in to function on automatic. I think we need to embrace the automatic setting on our brains… it’s infinitely useful, if slightly scary when you realise that you’ve locked your bike at a red light…
Posted by Alex on April 17, 2010
I feel the need to defend my own demographic, (that is straight from school female undergrads on an all female course), and explain that we aren’t all cliquey eliteist bitches.
We only have one properly mature student on our course but we all got on with her really well and generally it was great to have her experience on our side. I think perhaps when we first started it was maybe assumed that a woman with a proper life and a proper house and actual children wouldn’t be that interested in the company of then 18 year old girls with not much to worry about other than wether their flatemates were going to have washed up or not, but that doesn’t arise from a feeling of superiority- quite the opposite in fact.
That said, I really do feel for you Ellie, I’ve had study group issues myself-shyness and a lack of confidence in my knowledge mean that I rarely feel brave enough to say anything before the discussion has moved on and noone ever seems to think to ask me. I wish I had something useful and/or helpful to say, but all I’ve resorted to doing is kicking myself up the arse and saying it anyway.
I really hope things get better for you.
Posted by Rhian on April 17, 2010
Iona, what Mark says about your gut feeling is so true. I visited Lancaster Uni and immediately knew it wasn’t for me – it’s on a campus and the thought of being stuck there and not living in a proper neighbourhood with non-students was horrifying (I probably could have worked that out without visiting but it really brought it home to see it for myself). After that I had a choice of Leeds, Sheffield and Newcastle. Looking at the prospectus it was very hard to see any massive differences in the course content, particularly for the first year and I think it’s very difficult know what you might want to be doing in years 2 and 3 (if you are doing a course with lots of choice.) In the end it came down to my feeling about the city. I visited Sheffield on an utterly miserable day so it wasn’t at it’s best, but the bus driver was helpful and I liked the department (although I ended up with some pretty poor teaching from one or two lecturers, I think if you spot someone crap in the 1st year and can avoid them after that do it, even if they teach a subject you like, they will kill it for you anyway.) I returned to Sheffield a few years ago to settle down. (I don’t know any of my friends who went to Oxbridge who settled there, they did seem to be under enormous amounts of pressure that would have sent me a bit crazy whilst they were studying though.)
The other thing to bear in mind, and for anyone else choosing a subject/uni if you don’t like it you can change it. You don’t have to stick with it if it’s not right for you. I still wish I had realised this and changed courses between the first and second year, but I thought it would be a sign of failure, which is ridiculous, it was just a sign of being too stupid to see what was staring me in my face.
Good luck.
Posted by Anji on April 17, 2010
Ellie – I have few friends from my uni years. Being a few years older I found them immature and childish. Also I travelled to uni and felt that seperated me a great deal. I found a few girls (only girls on my course, lead to some very bitchy moves) who I could connect with on some level, in my case ones who also travelled, and grinned and beared what I could. I hated working in groups and often stayed close to who I knew. You’ll be just fine, go with what ever makes you as happy as can be.
And Mark, thanks for looking into the hood issue. I’m much calmer over it now, I think we must have been having a rainy week when I posted it! I much prefer the sun
I’m grateful you didn’t suggest an umbrella, that and a puppy might be too much!! I guess I should be glad I’m not a hoody holigan… I might have had more issues than your average one!
Posted by Steph on April 17, 2010
I’m in my last year in school, and in Scotland a sixth of advanced higher courses is a project. I’ve finished one of mine but the other one seems to be going very slowly. I’m trying my hardest to get it finished but I don’t seem to be able to concentrate on the write up, and I only have a week left. At the start of next week I’ll have to start proper revision as well, and I just can’t see where I’m going to get the time. Do you have any tips for time-management?
My other problem is uni related. I’m wanting to do medicine after my gap year and I’ve got an unconditional offer for Dundee, and a conditional for Leeds, which I should manage to get the grade for. I really want to go to either Edinburgh or Aberdeen but they both rejected me this year, although I’m planning on reapplying again next year. However, there’s still a good chance I’ll end up at Leeds or Dundee so my question is: which uni should I accept? Both courses are good, but Dundee is only an hour on the train, and Leeds is five. I’d prefer to live in a bigger city like Leeds, but I’m not sure how I’d cope that far away from home. Do you think I should play it safe and stay in Scotland, or just accept Leeds and deal with it when I’m there? I have a lot of family in Yorkshire but no one my age that I know.
Posted by Gavin on April 17, 2010
EllieCat,
I have entire sympathy with your situation, not because I am a mature student on a university course… but because I was one of those young c**ts when I was on my course. In my case there was a number of mature students on my course and I was 18. We were horrible.
Mature students were not quite as dynamic (I am not saying that this represents you, or indeed the truth in general) at understanding the mechanisms of being a student and we often thought that they asked silly questions about tasks (causing us to roll eyes and swap knowing looks) and were more bumbling. Plus they looked different from us, really trendy bastards, even if you do not think that they are as good looking as The Mean Girls, you can pretty much guarantee that they do.
But here is the truth of it… All that bullshit that we laid upon them was crass immaturity. We thought that we knew something that we did not, we thought that there was a difference when there was not. Well there was a difference actually… but it was not that mature students were not as worthy as us, or as cool as us, it was that we were to immature to understand that mature students were, often, on a par with us in all areas and surpassed us in experience and knowledge. We just could not see that, we just did not want to…. It is their problem, not yours, is what I am trying to say.
Still…. does not help does it? You need solutions and there are some, but, I think that they are not going to be the ones that you think they should be. So here they are…
i) This will sound harsh, but it is not meant so… it is just the truth. You need to grow a thick skin. I am sorry but in the same way that you appear ‘old’ to them when you are not (or if you are, the fact that it should count for shit) they look older than they are. They probably look like adults. They are not. They are kids and barely out of being secondary school (i.e. the worse type of kids).
You need to find a way to do what you need to do, what you feel like doing and not let their reaction mess you up. It comes down to all those nasty cliches about not caring what other people think and living your own life, dog eat dog and all of that, but they are, unfortunately true. We live in a nasty world where people can be disciminated against for the most shallow and trivial of reasons and although it should not be like that, it is. No-one anything says here is going to stop what happens in those group sessions when you talk, or do not talk. So what has to change, what can be changed, is you. The way that that needs to happen is that you need to stop it affecting you… and get on with it.
ii) Tutors. One of the reasons that there is a barrier between you and them is because there is an age gap. So talk to the people your own age about it. When you go to uni you get a personal tutor… the personal tutor is not there for academic reasons, he is your personal guide through the university experience, you talk to him/her if you are ill, you talk to him/her if you are having housing troubles… you talk to him if the way that you course mates are treating you is causing your self esteem to plummet and endanger the chance of you enjoying yourself. Will he reprimand those iinvolved, give an embarrassing speech about the behaviour in a lecture? Probably not. But he will be an ear for you, he will be aware of the problem and he will (if he is good) cut you some slack if he can.
iii) Persevere. Those mature students on my course stuck with and became some of the most popular students on my course. May not happen that way for you… but stick with it anyone. Something may change for the better… and even if it does not in a further year or two (assuming this is three year course) they really will be a distant fucking memory, consigned, if they are lucky, to linger in the forgotten realms of your Facebook ‘friends’ and you can move forward into your life using your qualification to expand into new fields where you will meet plenty of mature people who will appreciate your experiences and your opinions.
I am 35 now. I cannot tell you what I would go back and say to myself if I could. Those kids will mature and look back and, if they have any sort of self awareness, realise that they were nasty to you for no good reason. Unfortunately that will not help you now at all and so you have to realise that it is their behaviour that is unreasonable and get on with living without letting it affect you.
Posted by Megan on April 17, 2010
ELLIE:
Your whole situation makes me angry. I’m also somewhat surprised, because when I was in undergrad, the mature students were the ones most keen to learn and were semi-prized in group work because of this (and for their wider knowledge basis and often their leadership). But Canada is a weird place.
(I apologise for making older students sound like a human commodity, BTW. University was a long time ago.)
I was mostly ‘done’ with people my age halfway through high school, so undergrad was fiercely annoying. A lot of the time, I kept to myself, actually, and got through just fine (I had a much better time doing my MPhil). Do you have a good support network outside of uni? If so, sod the folks who don’t value you (and barely value themselves) and worry about yourself and your work.
NICKY: I work in an office by myself (I am general manager of an independent cinema that doesn’t have early matinées) about 75% of the time. I talk to myself, my computer, my plants…but a volleyball? That’s just weird.
(There is a new Jodie Foster-directed Mel Gibson movie about a man who has a beaver puppet on his hand at all times. He thinks it’s a real beaver and talks to it all the time. I suspect this might be based on Mr Gibson in real life.)
But seriously, I use Google Talk with my friends and Twitter to stave off true boredom/loneliness, otherwise I probably would go mad.
Posted by Will on April 17, 2010
Hello
I am currently in 6th form and I am nearing my A-levels however I probably won’t pass them. I feel under pressure to go to university (from School, Friends, Parents etc) but I’m not sure If I can get into one (and if I can get into one it will be considered “Rubbish”). I have had to give up a subject which I really enjoyed and I am still failing exams despite knowing my subjects, please help!
Also Simone there’s a good website here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BritishPoliticalSystem
Posted by Iona on April 17, 2010
Thanks mark and others who answered my question.
I visited UCL yesterday so that’s a start at going round all the universities but there’s still a lot more I need to do!
Posted by Simone on April 17, 2010
Thank you for taking the time to answer my question, it was very helpful.
I watched the debate on the ITV the other night and i’m trying to read the paper everyday to help better my understanding.
I am Australian and have only ever voted in Australian elections. I’ve been in the UK 2 years and have registered to vote in this coming UK election.
Posted by Catherine on April 17, 2010
Dear Ellie, (I rather like that name. It’s my daughter’s.),
I am older than you and went back to college for a second undergrad, because someday I would like to work and take care of myself w/o the help of a bloody man. Yes, I’ve had bad experiences with men, especially the Male Parental Unit of said daughter. But I digress.
Most people at school think I’m a professor. I get a chuckle out of that. I have found that real professors like and prefer a mature student, because you are serious and not dicking around, i.e., wasting their time.
I try to be patient and tell myself, it’s only for 14 weeks (a semester). As I get older, time really does pass quicker. So you will be done in no time.
Cathy
Posted by EllieCat on April 17, 2010
Mark, thank-you ever so much for taking the time to reply to my problem. I’m chuffed to bits to be the star letter!
A huge amount of thanks to everyone who has replied in the comments section. Thank you so much for all your support and sound, constructive advice. I will look back at them whenever I am feeling a bit gloomy. It makes me sad that so many of you report similar experiences.
Mark mentioned the extra subtleties of female communication. Before I gave up work to go back to uni, I worked for nearly 20 years in a very male-dominated career. Over the years I learned to communicate by discussing the latest episode of Buffy, Star Trek or Doctor Who. It was unheard of to discuss ‘feelings’ or ‘relationships’. Maybe I am a bit out of practice at communicating with other women.
I think my expectations of uni were a mismatch with reality. I had imagined that others would be as excited as me to devour books and discuss them. These younger students may still be in ‘school mode’ and are duty bound to find everything boring.
I don’t believe these girls are truly horrible or bitches. Everyone on the course wants to work in a ‘caring’ capacity such as social work, health work, teaching disabled children, psychology or facilitating communication. I just hope that by the time they are ready to start work they have discovered some source of compassion within themselves and perhaps picked up a few more social skills as they mature.
I’ve pretty much resigned myself to looking upon the course as a slightly unpleasant, but temporary process that I have to get through to achieve my goal. My results are very good so far and I’m promising myself a really spectacular celebration when I finally graduate.
Thank-you again Mark and all who commented. I now have a lovely warm feeling (not just because the cat is asleep on my lap) and will go back to college on Monday with renewed hope and energy.
(Oh by the way, I’m 49. Huge amount of respect to the 80 year old lady that DeborahF mentioned)
Posted by h2osarah on April 17, 2010
Elliecat – If these girls are being bitches, hang out with the boys. Seriously though, the large majority of university aged girls are pretty cliquey and horrible. Look around your class for the other girl sitting alone, or the one who keeps her iPod in until the prof starts talking. That girl is your university’s me. Sit down near her next time. Say hello. If she’s anything like me, she’ll be glad of some company and be happy to have a new friend. Either that or she’ll be a psychopath. Good luck!
Emma & Mark – I don’t lose stuff. I always put things in the same place. Eg. Student card in the front right jeans pocket, keys in the front right coat pocket, iPod in the front left coat pocket. Cellphone in the back left jeans pocket. Either that, or it all goes in the purse (sorry Mark, I’m sure I’ve seen you with a satchel or something though, so I’m rolling with it). If you put everything in the same compartment all the time, it’ll become habit. I also never put things down when I’m out of the house or office. If I put my phone on the table at the restaurant, I’ll forget it there. So I leave it in my purse. Either that or go with the mittens-on-strings philosophy and tie all your possessions to yourself with string. I know they sell those things for glasses that old people wear. I’m sure the same could be applied to other items as well.
Also, Mark. I will gladly take your intermittent prodding to do some work. I do want to finish this degree and get out of here. In 2 weeks from now I’ll have done my exam and my presentation (time pressure dictates that I’ll do both of those things) but I should be starting to read papers, do a literature review and start writing the introduction portion of my thesis. To give me a head start on writing. Basically, from now until you hear that I’ve graduated, the occasional reminder to do some fucking work would be much appreciated.
Posted by lex on April 17, 2010
Hey Ellie,
I’m a few years older than most people in my courses. I am by no means the oldest person around, but I do understand that feeling of there being some kind of impossible chasm that you can’t span because you don’t even know in what it is constituted. I had it at primary, I had it at high school and I have it to some degree now, but it doesn’t bother me like it used to, for reasons I will cover.
I think when you’re a ‘mature’ student you also already tend to be afraid of seeming like a too-keen-pain-in-the- by talking too much, or being too ‘keen’. But, as someone has mentioned, you have bloody paid your fees, you are engaged with the work and it seems as though you are a thoroughly pleasant person who’s just getting along with getting along.
I think that the value of a ‘mature’ degree outstrips (in many cases) the value of a degree from which you graduated at twenty-one. I’m in my final semester of my undergrad. I started mine when I was twenty, effed it up (mainly drunken lazybones), went away and worked for a number of years, learnt how to work, how to maintain relationships within my environment (at which I’m still not flash, but improving) and most importantly, saw aspects of the world throughout that time (from cafes, advertising, real estate through to domestic violence and other sundry abuse) that mean that whenever I’m learning new things at school (I’m a critical theory geek), I’m also extrapolating out the principles and able to see their wider significance and possibilities for development. I could have understood this stuff intellectually when I was 14, but it (sounds trite but) really does mean more when you have the life experience as well. Plus the fact that it is actually harder to return to poverty once you know what it’s like to be able to pay all your bills AND eat with one week’s pay.
What I’m circling here is that your degree will be worth so much more than the ones that the ‘mean girls’ get. Because of what you will have done to get it. Eighteen year olds are still so wrapped up in unconscious privilege (and the dawn of the freedom to stay out til dawn) that they can’t see out of their own tiny paradigms and have no idea of the effects of their behaviour. They really are just children. Which is no excuse, but does give one a certain sense of high-horse-superiority, which, while perhaps a slightly snobbish and cheap way to make yourself feel better, can sometimes be a bloody effective internal ally against bullying and nastiness. As long as it’s internal.
My advice (getting there..) is fuck’m. You’ve paid, you have a right to occupy a safe (ie, non-abusive) space at uni, you have the right to quiet in lectures, you have the right to speak up in class. You also have a right not to give a shit about cretinous idiots and what they might think. On a slightly mean note myself, they will probably lose themselves to the heavy mist of patriarchy soon enough, follow the ‘script’ and in doing, become utterly bereft of meaning and never have the courage to do what you have done in going back.
As an aside, I was in lecture recently and these young munters were sitting behind me talking inane muntery crap and basically making an odious distraction of themselves. After a wee time spent getting quietly pissed off, I grabbed my ovaries in my teeth, turned around, and did something I would traditionally have eschewed in favour of fuming quietly like a strip of repressed wallpaper. I said, in my calmest and most grown up, sweet and polite tone, “Excuse me, could you shut the fuck up please?”. To which the urbane reply was the flipping of the bird from one young monsieur. Which I answered with a good-on-ya raised eyebrow and went about my day. I forget that from the outside I look like a grown up and that no one would think otherwise, unless they knew me well. Which confers on me the ability to tell someone off and get away with it as some kind of earned aged right. Good times.
Good luck Ellie. You are soo beyond what those girls could conceive to be. Get on with your own shit, remember you’re there for you not them and, stopping off for a second to be haughty once more, fuck’m.
Posted by Rachel on April 17, 2010
EllieCat – I’m a second year student too and even though I came to uni straight out of sixth form I was amazed by the ‘mean girls’ culture amongst students my age. I think you can chalk a lot of the bitchy, clicky behaviour down to a genuine lack of life experience and manners. But please don’t lose faith entirely, I wouldn’t be surprised if there aren’t plenty of 19 and 20 yr old students in your cohort who feel just as alienated from the behaviour of the few childish ones, its just a case of rooting them out.
Posted by Kathryn on April 16, 2010
Iona:
I’ve just done the whole university applications thing, and I found it really hard to decide where to apply as well. Mostly because I hate making decisions. My advice would be to do research on specific course details- you don’t want to get started on a course and realise you hate the books/historical period/scienc-y stuff you’re supposed to be studying. And visiting places really helps, even if you can’t make it to open days; it’s good to get a feel for the place especially if it’s far from home. I think most universities are happy for you to contact them and websites can be really useful as well.
In terms of Oxbridge applications, I somehow managed to get an offer for Cambridge for next year. The whole process sounds daunting but it’s not too bad, although they do tend to make you do extra forms and submit work and do interviews as well as the UCAS thing. So be prepared for that. It’s also a good idea to read around the subject so you can talk about things which aren’t on your course in your personal statement etc. And they don’t like it if you talk too much about extra-curricular activities in your personal statement- it’s supposed to be mostly about academic stuff.
I hope that was in some way useful. The whole university thing is a bit scary, but at this point it’s important not to worry about it too much and focus on exams. Which sucks. Good luck with everything!
Posted by lisa brunders on April 16, 2010
I’ve not got anything useful to add to all the advice, but it’s lovely to see all the support for Ellie, and I’d like to add mine x
Posted by DeborahF on April 16, 2010
I work for a University so I perhaps I can add the benefit of my experience to Elliecat and Iona.
Iona – choosing a University is a big thing – you’ll be spending three years (or more depending on your course), but it’s won’t be a difficult as you think. Mark is right in saying visit them – there are lots of open days at each Uni and there is no substitute for actually walking around the place, looking at the facilities, halls of residence and campus. Also talk to existing students – don’t be afraid to ask questions – they were in your position not so long ago. I’m sure you’ll know which is the right place for you. Remember it has to be the right University for you regardless of what anyone else says about it. Finally good luck with your exams and you’re University adventure.
Elliecat – the others are right you shouldn’t let the other girls ignorance ans insecurity get to you. Technically Universities class anyone over the age of 21 as a mature student, so no matter how old you are you can pass yourself of as 21!
The University I work for has a large number of mature and part time students – I’m sure there are more at your University than you realise. A couple of years ago I had the pleasure of working with our oldest student – Beryl was over 80 and decided to keep herself occupied by doing a part time degree in English. She was studying with 18 year olds and life experience she brought with her was amazing and I think at first the other students found that a bit intimidating but she soon had them wrapped round her little finger – so let Beryl be an inspiration to you.
If there isn’t any kind of get togethers for students in the same position as you, why not start one? Why not approach your student support services or Students’ Union to see what help they can offer? After all they are there for all students regardless of their age and may just need a bit of prompting to get the right support structures in place.
Posted by Phill Sacre on April 16, 2010
Looks like a lot of people have commented with support for Ellie, which is absolutely right. All the advice I can offer is – stick with it. Time will probably help, like Mark said these girls are probably a bit insecure and it’s easier for them at the moment to stick with what they know. The best thing you can do is not let it get to you and keep trying to be friendly, they will come round.
In terms of losing things, for both Emma and Mark… I find the most helpful strategy is to always keep things in the same place. e.g. I always keep my phone, keys, and wallet in the same pocket (not all together, but you see what I mean).
That way, something will feel wrong almost immediately if I don’t have my keys, wallet etc. with me.
A wallet is also a good thing because you can keep train tickets, bus tickets, parking meter tickets… etc. inside it.
I don’t know about other things though, perhaps you should buy one of those bags which have a wrist strap so you would have difficultly losing it!
Posted by Charlotte on April 16, 2010
Rather a serious question for you here. Apologies in advance.
What can you do or say to help a friend who’s constantly being told by her parents that she’s useless, overweight (incidentally she isn’t. Not by a long shot. But her parents aren’t slim themselves in any case) and has her parents and grandparents permanently telling her to be more like her little sister? Add to that the fact that her college tutor has told her class they’re all going to fail at life and no one in their right mind would love them and you have something of an idea of her everyday life. Any ideas?
Posted by LisaD on April 16, 2010
Ellie,
I was a non-traditional student as well. These girls are completely consumed by their own insecurity and misery; you can’t let a bunch of people so screwed up be any kind of influence on your self esteem. Don’t try to get on their good side or be overly friendly, that will only lead to them getting worse. Be you, do the work, participate whether they care or not. (Why should their bitchy behavior interfere with your education?) This is not your crowd, but there probably is one for you. Universities are big places, if you only got along with 0.5% of the population that would still be a large group. Hell, I only know you through a few posts on someone else’s blog and I think you’re great. There’s almost always some sort of community outreach/groups and clubs kind of stuff going on on campus. I met people my age when Salem Sate held it’s deeply dorky “Commuter Appreciation Day.” The activities were all lame and we were just there for the free coffee, but we were also all over the age of 25 and started bonding pretty quickly. It’s harder to do campus life stuff as a non-trad but trying to find some time in your schedule for it makes the whole experience a bit better.
Megan: Just write. Sounds like I’m being glib, I’m not. A pen is never heavier than when you’re trying to come up with a great first line. So don’t come up with a great first line; write a crap first line. Later on when you’ve got a feel for the characters and story arc and you’re in the groove you can go back cross out the first line and write a better one. It’s written on paper (or a computer screen) not marble. No one is born a brilliant writer. People might be born with talent (debatable) but it takes practice to be good at anything.
Emma & Mark: I find that there are certain things I lose more often than others, for example I rarely lose my keys but often lose my bus pass. So I bought a wallet, which I never take my pass out of, and the wallet has a chain which I attached to my keys and I attach both to my purse or messenger bag. Associating somewhat related things into a group makes them harder to lose than individual objects. It means carrying more stuff around but cuts down on time lost trying to find something tiny.
Posted by Emmy on April 16, 2010
Ellie – I’m really sorry things aren’t going well for you. Does your uni have a mature students group or the like so you can get to know people a bit older? Even if it doesn’t, maybe joining a club or society would allow you to meet some friendlier people outside your course.
It’s horrible that these girls consider age is an issue for friendship. They are being incredibly immature. You are better than they are and deserve to meet some nicer people.
Posted by Magnificent Josh on April 16, 2010
Elliecat:
The only real experience I have with this is through Dom, a 21 (I think) year old who joined my AS Physics class. It’s not a great story because he didn’t fit in terribly well for a long time. Over time though, people just got to know him. If you’ve got enough going for you you’ll find your role in the group in the end, unless, of course, they’re horrible people. Now, you shouldn’t assume they are, they probably spend all their time together so they’re already a close-knit group. I think you just need to show them that they want to be friends with you, show them just how good you are.
Posted by Corey on April 16, 2010
Emma/Mark, some help with not losing things. Have CCTV installed in your homes then every time you cannot find something simply look back through the footage and hey presto!,…….you’ll see where you left it!!
Posted by Misha on April 16, 2010
The mental image of you congratulating a lasagne has just vastly improved my mood.
Thanks.
As for Ellie my advice is just ignore them and battle on, I’ve had the same problem for years with girls my own age and if you act like you don’t care for long enough either they give up or you get a grudging respect. I’m willing to acknowledge this might take a while, its taken 7 years of growing up and hormones for me, but mostly just being relentlessly polite and pleasant makes people around you ok.
Posted by Anna Lowman on April 16, 2010
Laurs – I made the move to London 18 months ago from South Yorkshire, and despite it being a completely different pace of life, I’m incredibly glad and, being a total home bird, oddly proud that I did it. I think you do need a little support network here already, but that only needs to be one or two people. And the only other advice I’d give is to put some real time and thought into where you live, and who live with. I’ve ended up with a rwally lovely couple, in a nice area which means that no matter how tough work gets, I always have somewhere safe, and happy to go back to and I think that’s so important. Hope you make the move!
Posted by Sam on April 16, 2010
‘Ello
I’m trying to do some stand-up (as part of TYSIC and jsut generally). My main problem with it is not confidence, as whilst I don’t have any I’m perfectally capable of talking shit at people, and also I can take abuse. But I just think that it’s horribly arrogant of me to say I can be funny. Any suggestions?
Also I took some advice from the lovely Chris Addisson, who said that despite ones initial instincts, its best to do the same set again and again and again at the beginning to learn how to deliver it. This seemed like good advice. And I worked on a set which has gone down well. However I’ve got into the position of doing a gig at the same place as I’ve already done one, I’m aware some (perhaps a lot) of the same people will be there. Should I change my set? And if so, how do I decide on a new one?
Well the was all rather self indulgent and petty. And also for someone wanting to do comedy, surprisingly lacking in humour.
Oh well.
Cheers Mr Watson. And good luck everyone else, I wish I could help with your problems, but I have little to contribute except some vague moral support.
Posted by Marie on April 16, 2010
Elliecat: I don’t have any concrete advice, but believe me, you’re not the first person who has felt that way in Uni. Even though I was only 3 or 4 years older than most of the class, I felt left out a lot because I’d been working for those years, and had a different perspective on life. I can offer a glimmer of hope though. I’m now studying for a Masters degree, and I’m surrounded by people my age and older, who are all as interested in the course as I am, and some of whom have become really good friends. Please don’t let your self-esteem be determined by some ignorant little children. The fact that you had the courage to go back to Uni puts you ahead of them, and once you hold your degree in your hands, all the pain will be worth it. My graduation last year was even sweeter because of the difficulties I’d faced.
Posted by Chrissy on April 16, 2010
Elliecat, by definition most uni students who are there straight from college have something to prove. They are often not too sure what they are doing, blindly following each other through the muddle of hormones and anxiety, coping on their own for the first time. I think they will see you as someone who is self assure ( no matter how insecure you feel inside ), someone who actually knows what they want to do, someone who is bettering themselves. they will be jealous of you, they see adults as figures of authority. Just leave them to grow up, because that is what they need to do. Prove them that you are better than them by passing with flying colours and getting the career you want after finishing. You can do it without their approval .xx
Posted by Linsey on April 16, 2010
In a few months I’ll be leaving Sixth Form and going to university, which is terrifying. My offers that I got from the unis were a bit limited, so I accepted Leeds (which I really want to go to, but the entry requirements may be a bit too high for me) and Stirling as my insurance, which when I visited it the other day made me think it wasn’t my sort of place. There’s a high chance I may not get the grades for Leeds, and so I’m asking in a lengthy way, do you think it would be worth taking a year out if I don’t get into Leeds, or just go to Stirling and have a good time being student-y?
Also, emails telling me to work would be helpful to solving this problem as well if you’re offering! Thanks Mark.
And EllieCat, those girls sound horrible. It may be worth thinking that they’re probably not worth giving a second thought to, but I can understand that that’s not much solace. I agree with Rachael that friends and family are definitely a huge help when it comes to things like this! I hope things get better.
Posted by Rachael on April 16, 2010
EllieCat: I’m nearing the end of my second year at uni too, and I have hardly spoken to any of the people on my course. They don’t want to talk to me either and I’m only a couple of years older than most of them so I wouldn’t worry about it. I know it can be annoying when you have to work in groups and stuff but as long as you have friends or family to go home to after or call up and moan to about the mean girls in your class then I think that you’ll be fine without them.